"Basic Impetus with English abbreviations?" Topic

Hi,

I'm going to be testing these rules with my son and his friends, and was wondering if anyone ever made a version of the rules or QRS with English abbreviations instead of the Italian ones? It seems a bit of a confusing choice to make, using English descriptions and Italian abbreviations.

Will the upcoming 2nd edition address this?

Cheers,

Christopher

No I haven't seen such – it seemed an issue at the very beginning but in fact we very, very quickly got into the mindset of thinking of CP instead of HC and FP instead of HI, etc.

And a common language (abbreviations) in online forum discussion is pretty essential. So I think the CP, CM, CL, FP, FL, T, S nomenclature is here to stay.

Man is it really that confusing? No more so than the jargon in many games to be sure?

For me – a veteran gamer and a native English speaker, and familiar with Latin and Italian as well – nope, not a real problem, if inelegant.

But my son's friends are not native English speakers, and at most have played a bit of 40k. When I refer to Heavy Infantry and they see "FP" it leads to some confusion, as they are working through an additional language barrier on top of that.

Of course it's manageable, and I understand that a common reference point for discussion is handy. My point was merely that it would an introduction easier.

Why not keep the original abbreviations but add a small diagram or picture to each one on the QRS to remind your players of what each means?

I'll probably do the reverse, and edit my own QRS and army lists with consistent terminology. I'm just surprised that no one else has bothered, and thought I would check here first.

Cheers,

Christopher

I think many of us considered it for our first game but the fact is that by the end of that first game it was already unnecessary – the only oddities are "P" for heavy and "T" for missile, all the others are essentially the same.

It's less of a hurdle than it appeared to be, basically.

I like Basic Impetus and have no doubt that if the abbreviations had used English conventions the whole project would have been way more successful …

But they stuck with the Italian … the game is just as good but it turns off beginners.

Other good games have made similar decisions, so nothing new here.

Phil

Get used to the Italian abreviations. It is not hard and it will make understanding all the Army Lists much easier later.

Really,the hardest thing to remember is that "P" is for heavy. CP is heavy cavalry etc. Not really a big deal.

When I looked at BI I also had planned on renaming the abbreviations. I was going to use the rules for convention games where many first time players would be learning the rules.

I quit after seeing the abbreviations, honestly. Too many other games without that barrier.

Speaking of BI, what's happened to the army lists? They don't seem to be around any more.

Use the standard abbreviations but in parentheses spell out what they mean, with if necessary anglicization. I haven't played any of the Impetus games but if P means heavy in Italian, I bet it stands for a word beginning with P that has an English synonym.

So you write "CP (Cavalry, Profound)" or something like that.

You could also make a point to your young players by declaring "this is an Italian game" then saying each rule in an Italian accent. That will help them remember as well.

I found the abbreviations obscure at first and then I downloaded the rules in the original Italian, once I had the words behind the codes they made perfect sense (not that I speak Italian, but foreign military terminology is bread and butter to wargamers, surely).

Cheers
David

Amazing how quick you get used to them I don't even think about it now. This I found useful at first though
FP (Foot Protected for Heavy foot ) and
CP (Cavalry Protected for Heavy cavalry) …..might find this helpful ;-)

I just did whatever Tarty0 told me to do :)

Seriously very quickly – two games – got used to the abbreviations and what they stood for.

it would be not a big issue to use the English abbreviations for the second edition, but most of BI and Impetus gamers now share the same "codes". They would be upset and it woulc create much more confusion.
With Baroque I mostly used the English terminology and I suppose Italian gamers will not bother.

What is important is to share the same "codes"

This probably marks me down as some kind of a Philistine but I found the use of Italian codes off-putting enough that I didn't bother to try the rules out.

I find trying to learn a set of rules is hard enough without also having to memorise abbreviations which, in English, bear no relation to the words they stand for.

Well I have ploughed a pretty lonely furrow on behalf of Basic Impetus locally and have no doubt its user-unfriendly terminology was a big factor.

The French newcomer L'Art de la Guerre uses English abbreviations and has taken off straight away. Already much bigger than Impetus from what I see … though I am not convinced it is, at all, a better game.

Phil

I'm new to Impetus – thus the original question – but it seems the topic struck a cord.

Since the upcoming 2nd edition of Basic Impetus will be a purchased pdf, I suppose my question is: why not have both versions available?

I have had no issues with the abbreviations and have not given any thought until reading this topic. I do not see it as any sort of hindrance with the rules.

I would like to see an ancients rules set written in Classical Latin. I could then combine my love of Latin with my love of ancients war gaming.

I seriously had little trouble with the terminology. In fact, I can only think of one that did not make much sense. P for heavy. In Italian I suppose it is the word 'pesante.' CP and FP I presume is what people are miffed about?

Are there really any other terms that confuse in game? What are they if their are?

the only is P that could stand for Protected.
CP Cavalry Protected
CL Cavalry Light
CM Cavalry Medium
FP Foot Protected
FL Foot Light
S Skirmishers
Art Artillery
W Wagenburg (ot Warwagons if you are stick to other rules)
EL Elephants
T Missile Weapons, oh, yes, this is the only real difference

The rules were translated into 8-9 languages (something that native English rules don't care) and it was impossibile to find a unique coding.

I'm aware this choice could not satisfy everybody.

I've been struggling to remember so thanks very much Iosart! I just have associate T with "Twang!" and I'll be there.

T for toxophily?