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"Medieval Warfare by Terry Gore - ranges and strengths?" Topic


Medieval Warfare

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Comments or corrections?

Lord Raglan29 Dec 2010 12:55 p.m. PST

I received my copy of this ruleset yesterday and I have spent the last 24hrs having a good read. What a lovely set of rules, with a common sense approach.

Despite clear descriptions throughout, I have a couple of questions for those who have played it:

Why does a stand of men at arms only get a strength 3, when billmen get strength 4 per stand?

Secondly, when using "Foundry" size bases (40mm) do people find the archery ranges a little short – max long range 12".

MajorB29 Dec 2010 1:01 p.m. PST

do people find the archery ranges a little short – max long range 12".

What's the ground scale?

Knight Templar29 Dec 2010 1:11 p.m. PST

Wouldn't that depend entirely on the scale of miniatures used? The larger the scale the stranger that 12" max long range would seem.

Lord Raglan29 Dec 2010 1:13 p.m. PST

Margard,

Terry states that the width of a stand is approximately 40 paces, subsequently 12 inches would equate to about 120 paces.

I will use 28mm figures, so it does appear to me a little short.

Gareth

Knight Templar29 Dec 2010 1:38 p.m. PST

"120 paces" is too short by half in my opinion. Longbows routinely shot out to well over 200 yards or paces.

MajorB29 Dec 2010 1:40 p.m. PST

Yep, 12" is too short at that ground scale. I usually reckon bow shot to be about 250 yds, so I would double the range to 24".

rddfxx29 Dec 2010 1:41 p.m. PST

There is variation in "long range" across a variety of weapons. For longbow and cross bow, for large stands (40 to 75mm in width), long range is 12-16 inches. As regards strength of stand, MAA are assumed in loose order, generally armed with 2 handed cutters, aka axes, whereas billmen are armed with thrusting weapons and are more closely ordered (I'm not convinced this is right, but it is an old convention in the lists). However, you may tinker with army lists however you like for scenario games. Recommend you join the Yahoo support group:

link

Perry Grey, the resident Saga MW rules expert and army list editor, is well worth meeting and does a great job responding to players questions on the Saga site.

Who asked this joker29 Dec 2010 2:30 p.m. PST

Terry states that the width of a stand is approximately 40 paces, subsequently 12 inches would equate to about 120 paces.

The width of a stand is 40mm. So, 1 pace per 1mm. That means each inch is 25 paces (about). So 12" is 300 paces. A Roman pace is about 28 inches. 28*300/36=233.33 yards.

If you are scale happy then you can safely assume that 12" is roughly 240 yards.

vtsaogames29 Dec 2010 2:44 p.m. PST

Don't play MW but suggest you play several games before modifying ranges and such. It may well throw off the game balance.

Lord Raglan29 Dec 2010 2:51 p.m. PST

acarhj

You are right – thank goodness I am not an accountant.

However in game terms it still feels a little short compared to other games that I have played.

Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP29 Dec 2010 3:19 p.m. PST

"I received my copy of this ruleset yesterday and I have spent the last 24hrs having a good read. What a lovely set of rules, with a common sense approach."

Glad you have caught on to what I (and a few others!) have known for many years ;-)

Please check out the Yahoo group for additional info, scenario books, army lists, answers to questions, etc…
link

Post script….I just saw your question posted there as well. Enjoy!

rddfxx29 Dec 2010 3:25 p.m. PST

"However in game terms it still feels a little short compared to other games that I have played."

Longbow and Crossbow are very effective weapons in MW, especially with arrow storms for the former. 16" on an 5' x 8' foot table (typical tournament table in the US) is plenty of range for a single stand in a good sized battle. And again, the focus in MW is on stands and units, not individual figures.

parrskool30 Dec 2010 5:07 a.m. PST

"120 paces" is too short by half in my opinion. Longbows routinely shot out to well over 200 yards or paces.

Yes, but EFFECTIVE range is where they can begin to do serious damage,This is much less, especially for plate armour. One would withhold "fire" until then, if for no other reason than to conserve arrows which would quickly be exhausted.

korsun0 Supporting Member of TMP30 Dec 2010 6:10 a.m. PST

Don't be too concerned about figures per stand as they are representative only. At the beginning there is also a paragraph I believe which states some loose order infantry have strength 4 to represent their ability, weapons and training despite the fact they were nominally loose order. I guess the thing is to get away from the often promulgated statement in rules that heavier troops fought closely together and hence have more figures per stand, more strength. As rddfxx says, mAA needed room to swing things and also, the ranges can be quite lethal and its possible to knock a stand or two off an approaching unit quite easily. The overall troop type is the thing because once (or if) you get past the bills you can cream the stands; MAA take a bit more killing.
I just wish I'd found these rules when I stopped WRG5th and 6th instead of moving to DBXX and WRG7th which effectively destroyed my interest for a long time…..

Who asked this joker30 Dec 2010 7:27 a.m. PST

You are right – thank goodness I am not an accountant

Actually, your accounting is just fine. Just don't build anything without getting your work checked first! wink

If you are using 28mm figures, the ranges probably will look short. I've never had a problem though as I play in 15mm.

Militia Pete30 Dec 2010 9:03 a.m. PST

And just for a piece of advise. The rules don't mention that lombards cannot be moved. I had a game where that was used against me in a WOTR game. I was calling it out and they said that it did not specify that you can't move lombards.
Needless to say, by the time you got one of those bad boys in place, the battle would be over before it got moved.

If it has wheels, then it came move.

And the support group stated that I was right. But little matter for the Duke of Warwick as he ran home…

MajorB30 Dec 2010 9:12 a.m. PST

lombards?

… oh, you mean bombards!

Lord Raglan30 Dec 2010 12:33 p.m. PST

I emailed Perry (very helpful chap) at the yahoo group, he suggested that I could simply use the large ranges with my 40mm wide stands which actual makes a lot of sense and saves any messing about.

Jobs a good one!!!

Militia Pete30 Dec 2010 2:08 p.m. PST

Yea, under the flu/bad cold.
My bad (cough cough, sneeze, misery)

Uesugi Kenshin Supporting Member of TMP31 Dec 2010 5:15 a.m. PST

That's ok…you're still Rick james bitch!

:-0

Archduke Stick01 Jan 2011 11:51 a.m. PST

I've been playing these rules for a while. They take a bit of getting used to, but play smoothly once you understand the mechanics.

I'd be careful about changing the archery ranges – you'll find that foot troops take too much fire coming into contact. It might really disrupt your games.

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