"An Open Letter to the Members of HMGS-PSW" Topic

I wondered how long it would be before the Frothers/TMP fires were stoked again :)

Bill, seriously, stop visiting Frothers. Just work on setting up a concurrently running trial of TMP 4 on a separate server. Provide links here. We can visit it and provide feed back.

Come on, knock this off.
--
Tim

Pretty simple, mail him a bill. He even offered to pay for the postage.

I agree it will only take all of 5 min. To write up
A bill and mail it.

I agree it was uncalled for to add any reference to Frothers. It was not relevant to the point being made. They do need to get it paid. As a paying member of the organization in question I am disappointed that they are not handling their obligations.

Agreed, there was no need to mention them again other then the fact that the thread there had not had any posting to it for the last 4 days and might die on its own.

Under the law if they request a written itemized invoice you are legally required to produce one, or they owe you ZERO in the eyes of the courts.

If you can't or do not know how either figure it out or move on and forget it.

I wondered how long it would be before the Frothers/TMP fires were stoked again :)

Has nothing to do with the "Frothers war," it was just that Frothers is the forum where the claims were made.

I agree it was uncalled for to add any reference to Frothers. It was not relevant to the point being made.

Actually, it provides evidence that the club deliberately stopped payment, as opposed to this being some kind of clerical accident. It is also evidence of a vendetta on the part of at least one individual in HMGS-PSW leadership.

Pretty simple, mail him a bill. He even offered to pay for the postage.

John Harrel has withdrawn the offer, and claims he is being slandered.

To be honest Bill I'd probably do the same as Mr Harrel. He asked you for an invoice in writing and offered to cover the cost of it in addition to a bill that he probably isn't liable for. Why the hell didn't you just write him the goddam invoice and be done with it, instead of parading it around here. You'd have your money by now. And reading the story in detail there was no reason to mention the Frothers posting, it was just a side note. Unless you really do just want to stir the pot whilst also drawing attention to what seems to be the reason they were unhappy advertising here.

LOL at Shedman, that's funny. In Bill's defense he did supply them with proof of the debt, including the requested breakdown. It just seems as though they do not wish pay him for whatever reason. On the other hand Bill could have sent the requested invoice and gotten paid…maybe….

Good for John…

It probably would have been less effort to write up the invoice than to draft the open letter, especially with the hunting down of quotations and capturing of screenshots.

To be honest Bill I'd probably do the same as Mr Harrel. He asked you for an invoice in writing and offered to cover the cost of it in addition to a bill that he probably isn't liable for. Why the hell didn't you just write him the goddam invoice and be done with it…

Because there's absolutely no reason for it. TMP has hundreds of advertisers. Nobody requires a written invoice.

…You'd have your money by now. And reading the story in detail there was no reason to mention the Frothers posting, it was just a side note. Unless you really do just want to stir the pot whilst also drawing attention to what seems to be the reason they were unhappy advertising here.

When someone who claims to be a leader in HMGS-PSW is posting on Frothers about this issue, revealing information available nowhere else – of course it is relevant, and perhaps key to the whole matter.

After all, it is "Banned by Monty" who hints that he is the one who convinced HMGS-PSW to stop making payments on their account.

Errmmh, Bill,

"Nobody requires a written invoice."

Mr Harrel does.

As has been pointed out.

Well they really just posted about canceling the advertising not telling you to go pound sand about paying you. To be quite frank with you Bill, you need to drop this Frothers bs. It has consumed you, whether you see that or not. Your post after mine on the PSW yahoo group was misguided. You should have let the members handle it from there. At times I think you may be your own worst enemy.

Having read your open letter and now visited Frothers, I'm baffled why you have chose to go public with what is essentially a dummy(pacifier) spit.

You say above

After all, it is "Banned by Monty" who hints that he is the one who convinced HMGS-PSW to stop making payments on their account.

I'm assuming this is the hint you are talking about above

..edit.. HMGS-PSW made the decision to stop advertising on pmt. He was notified of this repeatedly and asked to send a final bill.

The "hint" as you put it reads a lot like they pulled their advertising. Maybe I have the wrong quote? Either way this "going another round" over at Frothers is, in my opinion, regrettable and a little childish.

I don't care for, or about it, your business dealing with your customers is your business why drag the tmp membership into it again. It's time to face the facts a clear majority of respondents have posted similar views, we don't want it. Yeah yeah put it in a poll *sigh*

It appears you use us to build support for your case yet we don't know the particulars for and against, are we expected to line up like the proverbial ducks?

Well, no, the hint is where Banned By Monty says:

Don't know who it could have been… (smiley)

And then you ask:

are we expected to line up like the proverbial ducks?

I believe this article is addressed to the members of HMGS-PSW, correct?

Mr Harrel does.

As has been pointed out.

HMGS-PSW owes money. At this juncture, they have no right to stipulate conditions under which they will pay what they owe.

Furthermore, Mr. Harrel asserts he is acting as a private individual. Why can't HMGS-PSW pay its own debts?

To be quite frank with you Bill, you need to drop this Frothers bs. It has consumed you, whether you see that or not.

This issue has nothing to do with Frothers, except that it is their forum which someone at HMGS-PSW is using to publish his statements.

Your post after mine on the PSW yahoo group was misguided. You should have let the members handle it from there. At times I think you may be your own worst enemy.

Excuse me for disagreeing, but I think I made some excellent points there which are relevant to HMGS-PSW membership. Will Banned by Monty identify himself? When HMGS-PSW makes its documents dump, will that include the emails in which they chose to stop making payments to TMP? If so, those emails could shed light on whether this is just a club's error or someone's personal vendetta. If I was a member of HMGS-PSW, I would want full transparency.

Hey Bill! One of your "fans" (Liar Armintrout) just joined TMP!

They really like to bust your s.

Angel Barracks is so happy.

Oh my……

This issue has nothing to do with Frothers, except that it is their forum which someone at HMGS-PSW is using to publish his statements.

Which are not relevant to the argument and your insistence on including them, I think, is detrimental to your cause.

Excuse me for disagreeing, but I think I made some excellent points there which are relevant to HMGS-PSW membership. Will Banned by Monty identify himself? When HMGS-PSW makes its documents dump, will that include the emails in which they chose to stop making payments to TMP? If so, those emails could shed light on whether this is just a club's error or someone's personal vendetta. If I was a member of HMGS-PSW, I would want full transparency.

Being a past officer of said group I think I can talk to them and get answers with out outside people intervening. It probably hurt your cause more than helped it for you to chime in. I was trying to help you.

As far as who is who on the internet does it really matter?

Which are not relevant to the argument and your insistence on including them, I think, is detrimental to your cause.

I strongly disagree. It suggests that there might be intent to defraud, based on collusion of the club directors. It identifies one person disgruntled about being removed from TMP, who admits having inside knowledge about a situation while HMGS-PSW was keeping TMP completely in the dark.

Being a past officer of said group I think I can talk to them and get answers with out outside people intervening. It probably hurt your cause more than helped it for you to chime in. I was trying to help you.

As they've already admitted, it is not a closed group.

As far as who is who on the internet does it really matter?

I think that knowing the person's identity would go a long way towards knowing if the person is credible or not. Perhaps he has a long history of conflict with others. Perhaps he has a known agenda.

Whatever I'm done…

You want your money? Send him a ing written invoice. This is not rocket science.

If it was just a written invoice, that would be no problem. But it's the long list of special requirements, and then the whole issue of why this is going to some private person instead of the organization itself?

The whole thing smells fishy to me.

They gave undocumented excuses, and then made special demands? I don't believe they intended to pay even if they did get their written invoice. It was just another delaying tactic.

Someone named Stephen (stp1959) claims on the PSW Yahoo! group that:

It was discussed at the last board meeting. The consensus was that the ad continued to be run on site after requests to kill it. Therefore the money currently requested was illegal.

As I've told them all along, if they can document that they cancelled the advertising, I'll be glad to amend the invoice. But by their own admission, their earliest attempt to cancel came after the account had already been closed for delinquency.

Supposedly PSW will be doing some kind of document dump on their forum later today.

They gave undocumented excuses, and then made special demands? I don't believe they intended to pay even if they did get their written invoice. It was just another delaying tactic.

"they" say "they" cancelled the advertising

..edit.. HMGS-PSW made the decision to stop advertising on pmt. He was notified of this repeatedly and asked to send a final bill.

It is all just a bunch of he said, she said, oh yeah says who.

Winston nailed it

You want your money? Send him a Bleeped written invoice. This is not rocket science.

Anyway enough of this we are here to discuss gaming related topics not more tmp sagas, so I think that is what I'll restrict myself to from now on, wait for me Stosstruppen. Pity these topics cant be put on ignore

"they" say "they" cancelled the advertising

Only after the services had aready been rendered

Left Bank, I understand you have some kind of minis business. Welcome to TMP. Read what you like, ignore the rest.

Whatever I'm done…

Apparently I am, too – they've kicked me off their Yahoo! group.

"Supposedly PSW will be doing some kind of document dump on their forum later today."

Why the hell would they be doing that?

The only person who wants or needs to see those documents is you.

Surely the next stage is a solicitors letter, not this?

Why the hell would they be doing that?

They made the announcement…

Out of interest, setting aside whether a public forum was the best way of dealing with this, wouldn't it have been better posted to one of the usual forums, like 'clubs' or 'American Wargaming' where it would be more likely to be seen by PSW members than hidden away here?

What was the thinking behind that course of action?

Since they saw it almost immediately, it seems a moot point.

Hold your horses Bill.

It seems that HMGS-PSW thought they'd pulled their advertising in Feb, you didn't think they had so continued to run the advertising.

Fair enough, three months later you stop the advertising on the grounds of non payment.

Fair enough. You take steps to recover the money. Fair enough.

Mr Harrel points out that your e-mails may have gone astray as the HMGS-PSW is now HMGS-PSW (Inc). He then offers to pay the outstanding debt if you will send him a signed printed invoice detailing the services you have provided. Actually in accordance with your terms and conditions (except the signed bit, but I'm going to give Mr Harrel a bit of leeway).

You then claim these terms are unacceptable.

On the basis that Mr Harrel is a "third party". That dog won't hunt Bill.

My opinion, Mr Harrel wants you to go away and in order for you to do so has offered you your payment. He has taken it upon himself to pay the outstanding money from his own pocket. He wants the invoice in order (if he can) to produce evidence that he has suffered expenses in running HMGS-PSW (Inc) so he may claim it back.

What is so hard to understand about this?

It seems that HMGS-PSW thought they'd pulled their advertising in Feb

They told me their earliest request was August 2014.

Mr Harrel points out that your e-mails may have gone astray as the HMGS-PSW is now HMGS-PSW (Inc).

He has never made any such claim to me. Is treasurer@hmgspsw.com not the valid email address?

When did HMGS-PSW become HMGS-PSW (Inc)? Why would the debt not transfer? Why can't the organization simply pay the bill?

Actually in accordance with your terms and conditions (except the signed bit, but I'm going to give Mr Harrel a bit of leeway).

Well, no. I'll gladly give him a printed invoice. I balk at having him dictate what the language in the invoice will be.

He wants the invoice in order (if he can) to produce evidence that he has suffered expenses in running HMGS-PSW (Inc) so he may claim it back.

Normally, a check would be sufficient proof.

Why are they telling you completely different things from what they are telling me? Why is their story changing? It looks suspicious.

Nobody from HMGS-PSW is telling me a thing.

I'm in the UK, as you can tell from my internet address.

What language does Mr Harel want it in? If Klingon then I'd balk at that and produce some evidence.

I'm commenting on this. Trying to give you some good advice but it would appear uou prefer doing badly on your own advice.

Nobody from HMGS-PSW is telling me a thing.

In that case, you're just confused.

Mr Harrel points out that your e-mails may have gone astray as the HMGS-PSW is now HMGS-PSW (Inc).

He never said any such thing.

I'm commenting on this. Trying to give you some good advice but it would appear uou prefer doing badly on your own advice.

Thank you for your unsolicited advice. I think I'm doing exactly what was needed – raising the issue for discussion by the HMGS-PSW membership. Hopefully, they will prevail on their leadership to do the right thing.

I suggest that in the future the membership of TMP stop wasting your time giving The Editor in Chief advice. You will be ignored, no matter how much sense you make.
Just keep on doing what you came here for on the first place, which is to find out who makes Abyssinian miniatures for 1898 or whether Loyalist regiments carried Colours.

I have given my last advice and will instead follow my own.

Yep, that's what I did Winston.

NOTHING of this sort occurs on CSW.

Ridiculous.

Not a very good look for TMP, airing dirty laundry and all that.

This shouldn't even be here.

I agree with Winston Smith, unless that gets me Dawg Housed…..Then I agree with John the OFM…..

Yep, Winston, I'm stopping.

now, are you sure that cuff lace is the right shade?

Under fluorescent light it doesn't seem the right shade to me, as is evidenced by (cont. P.94).

What's CSW?

talk.consimworld.com

Hit the Forum button, subscription is FREE

Mainly board wargaming, but there is a miniatures and Euro element also.

By the way, Irregular makes nice Abyssinians in true 25mm while Castaway Arts makes fine 28mm Abs.
If Loyalists operated as line infantry, then I would expect them to carry a stand of Colours, following the dictates of the 1768 Warrant.