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"Best Fantasy Novel(s) for Wargamers (Round 1A)" Topic


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Winston Smith23 Apr 2017 3:15 a.m. PST

I can't believe that I didn't nominate Avram Davidson's brilliant 2-part trilogy (he had a bad habit of not finishing trilogies…) Peregrine.
Like Anderson's The Broken Sword, my Penn State group stole a lot for campaign. My frail elderly wizard was named Appledore for one thing.

Not nominated, not in poll.
Dem's da Rules.

TKindred Supporting Member of TMP23 Apr 2017 4:05 a.m. PST

Not interested in fantasy. I had waded through a couple of Lieber's novels in order to placate a friend before I realized what worthless trash fantasy is as a genre. Mind-numbingly hopeless trash, fit only to line the bird cage or start the wood stove.

Indeed, what surprises me is the inclusion of the Iliad in the fantasy genre when it is history. I'd perhaps begrudgingly say it's partially historical fiction, but fantasy? Not a chance.

Who asked this joker23 Apr 2017 6:07 a.m. PST

Dragonlance novels were phenomenal. Chronicles. Legends. The first book of short stories. After that, TSR was just selling copy.

Major Mike23 Apr 2017 7:25 a.m. PST

The Destiny Dice trilogy by David Bishoff or this two set series, Nightworld and Vampires of Nightworld. Nightworld series might really appeal to the Steam punk/VSF crowd.

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP23 Apr 2017 7:43 a.m. PST

You know, I think I've read most of the list, but none influenced my miniature gaming. When we get to Tolkien it's another matter, or Howard if he shows up.

Martian Root Canal23 Apr 2017 8:10 a.m. PST

When did the Iliad become a fantasy novel?

rmaker23 Apr 2017 9:08 a.m. PST

When did the Iliad become a fantasy novel?

When Homer included divine intervention. Of course, one might quibble on "novel".

And if the Iliad counts, what about Beowulf?

nochules23 Apr 2017 9:16 a.m. PST

Miles Cameron is a wargamer, some of his characters are based on other wargamers he knows and I suspect some of the action is loosely based on wargames he has played. Not that it should influence your voting…

Weasel23 Apr 2017 10:10 a.m. PST

Glenn Cook, most things Moorcock, Tolkien, a touch of Eddings.

I like Leiber but for wargaming, he's not really relevant.

As for the Illiad, what makes it not fantasy?

JimSelzer23 Apr 2017 1:03 p.m. PST

Eddings problem is once you have read 1 of his trilogies you have read them all

JimSelzer23 Apr 2017 1:03 p.m. PST

wheres Conan and John Carter?

robert piepenbrink Supporting Member of TMP23 Apr 2017 2:50 p.m. PST

"Eddings problem is once you have read 1 of his trilogies you have read them all."

Yes! And if you realize it early enough, it's a great time-saver. But they weren't trilogies. You wouldn't believe what it was like trying to extract all five volumes fron AAFES in Korea.

I think Barsoom is disqualified as SF rather than fantasy, but I was wondering about Howard myself. Plenty of nice skirmishes, at least three pitched battles, and I think the only name on the list with a complete figure line and a famous wargame campaign. I checked, by the way, Conan was mentioned at least twice in "pre-poll discussion."

Weasel23 Apr 2017 3:09 p.m. PST

Yeah, with Eddings just grab one of his series and stick with that.

Conan is great but a lot of them aren't very wargaming oriented. RPG's on the other hand.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP23 Apr 2017 5:07 p.m. PST

I have to agree that Eddings was great for the first three and then a strange case of deja vu set in

Abercrombie is great but the best of all in my humble view is the master of disaster, Glen Cook – between the Dread Empire and the Black Company series, some of the grittiest and best fantasy I have ever read

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP23 Apr 2017 7:56 p.m. PST

Wow, TKindred, way to lump everything up into a generalization when you clearly haven't read much of any of it. Kind of pathetic. really. I could give you a long list of historical fiction that is, how did you put it? Oh, yes, "mind-numbingly hopeless trash." But I suspect you're just trolling.

When did The Iliad become fantasy? When it was composed. Homer was making most of it up, and knew it, because he (and the later reciters who obviously enhanced it) wanted to butter up a rich audience with assertions that "oh, why, yes, your great-great-grandpappy was a hero, too, and beloved of the gods, oh, why thank you for that gift of gold, and I must say you are the spitting image of your heroic forebear," yadda-yadda kiss-up kiss-up. Are you under the impression that Homer thought everything he said actually happened? Oh, the war, sure, and the general story, yes, even godly interest, but sea serpents? Apparitions? Etc., etc.. Pure bunkum, and Homer knew it. But gotta give the crowd what they want, right? So yes, it was fantasy then and it's fantasy now.
Here are some other works that are, in fact, fantasy:
Shakespeare's plays, specifically Hamlet, Macbeth, A Midsummer Night's Dream, and The Tempest. Ghosts, witches, fairies, and a wizard.
Marlowe's Doctor Faustus.
Spenser's The Faerie Queen
Malory's Le Morte d'Arthur
And most other medieval lays, including my namesake "novel" by Wolfram Von Eschenbach, Parzival. All fantasy, and knowingly created as such by their authors. (And, yes, you can get a lot of good wargaming ideas from them).
Tennyson's Idylls of the King
Good grief, man, you simply do not know what you are typing about!

As for those books actually called novels Lord Dunsany's The King of Elfland's Daughter, E.R. Eddison's The Worm Ouroborous are masterpieces, and far from "trash."

Tell me, is T.H. White's The Once and Future King "mind-numbing trash?" If it is to you, trust me, it's not the book that has numbed your mind.

Yes, there are bad works of fantasy, particularly popular fantasy. But that's true of every genre. Sturgeon's Law applies.

For more modern works worthy of consideration as quality, I would point you to Tim Power's The Drawing of the Dark, Megan Whalen Turner's Eugenides series (aka The Thief series), almost anything by Terry Pratchett, and Mary Stewart's Arthurian trilogy.

Oh, and some chap named Tolkien.

Now, for wargaming fantasy, I'll nominate the not-on-this-list-but-ought-to-be Brandon Sanderson. His recent works The Way of Kings and Words of Radiance are startlingly original in setting and concept, and his examination of the true qualities of leadership should be a must-read for would be military officers (and heck, politicians). If you expect men to risk their lives at your word, you'd best demonstrate that you will risk your life for them. Which is a pretty powerful message to come out of a fantasy novel!

I will close by saying that most of the selections on this list aren't my cup of tea. But that's because my personal taste is different, not because the suggestions do not have merit in and of themselves. There are plenty of very literary authors whose works I don't like; that doesn't make those works any less literary.

Hafen von Schlockenberg24 Apr 2017 8:14 a.m. PST

picture

USAFpilot24 Apr 2017 11:53 a.m. PST

The Lord of the Rings

John the OFM24 Apr 2017 9:14 p.m. PST

I should have nominated Poul Anderson's Hrolf Kraki's saga.

My bad.

Deucey Supporting Member of TMP25 Apr 2017 7:20 a.m. PST

Conan
Felix and Gotrek (GW)
Inquisitor (GW)
LOTR and Hobbit
McKiernan's Silver Call Duology (LOTR sequel)

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