"Experience with GMT's Panzer & MBT...." Topic

Having grown up on board games like Panzerblitz. Squad Leader and Firefight. I was looking to get back into some skirmish gaming.

I was wondering if anyone here have any experience in playing either MBT or Panzer. I'm interested in both periods equally.

I read a couple reviews and seen a few on youtube that were all positive but as both are about $100 USD investment (not including expansions) I'm curious how well these hold up over multiple plays/ re-plays, how good the included scenarios are, and how good the maps are for replay value.

As for Panzer, I'm particularly interested in the first expansion kit that covers the Eastern Front and Kursk in particular.

THanks for any tips.

We played it a bunch when it came out, and we're actually contemplating a few games next month with the latest France 1940 expansion.

Good replayability on the game, we had a few scenarios we played multiple times and there are quite a few in the games. They seem to be well tested. Good OOB for design your own stuff. The basic game has a single map that has a variety of terrain but gets a bit old, the expansions have the ASL style map strips. These are somewhat themed, e.g. the exp #2 has city terrain, exp #3 has hedgerows, but as they are two sided you do get a good mix of terrain to fight over. Note, if you get MBT and Panzer, the maps are compatible. Further note, I have ASL and I have played the games on those maps too!

I like the Russian Front stuff. With the first two expansions you have hardware from 1941 to 1945 and scenarios to use it. Good Kursk scenarios, they capture the teething problems on the early Panthers well. And you get to use a ton of armor, always a plus.

VERY hardware oriented but it includes soft factors as well. MG's can suppress a tank, making it button up and less effective. Infantry has a role in the game, but the tanks are the stars. Higher complexity than usual for today's games. Get into the advanced game quick, the basic game is too limited. Interesting command system. I play the game using modern Soviet tactics and it works well for me. Scandalously, I play the Germans the same way. It does the trick.

One cheat we use. You compare penetration to armor to get a result, very deterministic. They have another system to vary penetration, but it's another die roll and chart to use. I pulled out "cheat dice" or Fate Dice and throw four of those with an AT shot and it helps to easily show us some variability.

We tried MBT, but it got too much into the hardware. It's the same system, but the armor and penetration values are quite high and it comes down to hardware numbers fast rather than play. Plus missiles, helicopters, air, all the modern toys get added and it was more than we could grasp and keep straight on what was already a high complexity game. WWII has a good band of armor and guns and a lot of scenarios so we stick with that.

If you are looking for something that is of comparable complexity to Panzerblitz, the original squad leader, or fire fight, I would recommend the nations at war series by lock'n load games. My gaming group found Panzer and MBT to be too complex.

Panzer / Armor / 88 were the rules we used to play micro-armor back in the day. 1/285th GHQ and CnC minis on Geo-Hex terrain. Great, but complex rules.

Tigers and Stalins came about so micro armor could be played at Game Conventions….

Dave

Thanks all, especially Lead Minister for the excellent reviews!

I could see where modern warfare with helicopters, missiles, jamming etc could really bog down the game.

So maybe I'll start with Panzer with the Kursk supplement to see how I like the game first.

Thanks again!

Oh, oh, oh! (like Arnold Horshack (sic?))

You NEED to check out the Conflict of Heroes games by Academy Games.

link

link

'Awakening the Bear' is early war/Barbarossa – 1941

'Storm of Steel' – Kursk

There are lots of video reviews and the newest 3rd edition makes the game even more streamlined. There are various add-ons for the game including a solo play addition.

YouTube link

You can even get computer games of them.

Thank you Myers! Checking them out now.

Did you get a chance to check them out? Any impressions?

I have to add to this, again.

I just found a new (to me) game that is in the same genre!

It's the 'Band of Brothers' series.

link

Seems very much like ASL and Conflict of Heroes.

Here is a comparison: link

I just got Ghost Panzer today. I haven't played it, I'm reading the rules, but it looks pretty good and has good reviews.

link

link

The hexes are larger than Squad Leader, but similar maps. Very similar. A person could use 6mm or 10mm vehicles and figures. (Why do we always want to mod our games?!)

Hey Wmeyers, I picked up both Panzer and MBT for pretty good prices. They are both on my to do list right now.

My priority currently is painting up some Necromunda Gangs for a holiday game with my nephews.

I've never played either of those, but they do have very high ratings on BoardGameGeek.

I think the focus on the nephews playing a game is probably the better idea!

I noted the games' designer, James Day, also made a miniatures rule set entitled 'Panzer for Miniatures'.

link