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"Oh Good Grief, Can We Dump JavaScript Already?!?" Topic

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Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2018 11:42 a.m. PST

It's kludgy, clunky, slow, and a security nightmare, yet every single website on the Internet (except this one, thank God), seems to HAVE to have it. And, of course, the scripters coding those sites all seem to be rejects from a high school coding class taught by the wrestling coach to give him some reason to be employed. And it only gets worse the smaller the business is, because when it comes to coding, you get what you pay for.
Stop it, already! You didn't need JavaScript to make a good e-commerce site before, and you sure as heck don't need it now.
Go back to nice, clean sites THAT ACTUALLY WORK FOR THE CUSTOMER instead of reloading every fifteen seconds because "a problem has occurred with this website so it had to be reloaded," said problem ALWAYS being caused BY YOUR SUCKY JAVASCRIPT CODE.

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian31 Jul 2018 11:52 a.m. PST

In all fairness, TMP uses a little Javascript too. grin

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2018 11:54 a.m. PST

Well, at least it doesn't cause the site to reload at every turn, and it's fully functional (as far as I can tell) with JavaScript turned off, which is how I prefer my internet.

Ed Mohrmann Supporting Member of TMP31 Jul 2018 12:55 p.m. PST

Kinda irritated 'bout that myself, Parzival… Not
here, tho'

PaddySinclair01 Aug 2018 7:11 a.m. PST

Thing is, where it's used well you don't notice it…

Personal logo Andrew Walters Supporting Member of TMP02 Aug 2018 6:37 a.m. PST

Well of course it's slow, it has "script" right in the name.

There are things I like about writing it. And I can't remember seeing a reload with that message. I don't get many reloads at all, actually.

As for reject coders, I am under the impression that a lot of javascript isn't written by people, it's written by other software. The "designer" clicks some check boxes and drags some buttons and out comes a web page with acres and acres of html and javascript that you can't read because it wasn't written as much as disgorged. That material is icky.

But I've written some things in javascript that probably shouldn't have been written in javascript (games, editing utilities) and they worked better than I thought. And no spontaneous reloads.

Now browsers, they are unreliable. When testing javascript I certainly found that things would work as I expected in one browser, give an interesting but pointless error message in another, and then do thrilling, unwanted things in a third.

Meanwhile, javascript is becoming more and more widely used, even outside of web pages. So I don't think it will be abandoned any time soon.

What are you thinking should replace it? PHP?

Personal logo StoneMtnMinis Supporting Member of TMP02 Aug 2018 10:55 a.m. PST

For privacy, I have java permenantly disabled and have never had any issues because of that. Also, I use ghostery to block trackers.


Waco Joe02 Aug 2018 1:33 p.m. PST

I think this site predates javascript.

and cuneiform too.

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP02 Aug 2018 2:33 p.m. PST

Now browsers, they are unreliable. When testing javascript I certainly found that things would work as I expected in one browser, give an interesting but pointless error message in another, and then do thrilling, unwanted things in a third.

This. This right here.

Apparently there are too many web coders who decide that it doesn't matter what other browsers do if their personal favorite handles the code well. Okay, fine, if you don't care who can access the information or entertainment you are putting out there. But if you're trying to SELL things to CUSTOMERS, you'd dang well better make certain the web site is as bug-free as you can make it, and as secure, too. Just the other day I was considering a possible purchase from a major online retailer of gaming product, from which I have purchased in the past. But they have redone their commerce website so that it only works with JavaScript enabled. Well, so much for *that* sale. I'll go elsewhere, thank-you-very-much.
I agree that competent programmers will create a site that I can use without running into problems, because they have done the hard work of debugging across multiple platforms and browsers. But unfortunately, even some major online content providers (particularly news services), don't apparently use competent, careful programmers; and the advertising services that operate on these sites are often the worst offenders (seriously, my once fellow admenó get your act together, Your client is NOT served when their ad LOCKS UP THE CUSTOMER'S BROWSER. It's *your* fault, but the customer is going to associate their p'o'ed feeling with the client. Ya might want to think about what that means for *your* future revenues).

So I commend you, Andrew, for your diligence.
As for what to use instead, I think a potential rule of thumb is "use the techniques that worked with the browsers of 5 years ago, not the browser of 5 days ago." This assures that you will continue to serve legacy customers who, contrary to the apparent geek world's assumptions, *don't* buy a new computer or new OS every time they come out. In fact, depending on the demographic you're trying to reach, you might extend that design range to 10 years out, 'cause your 50+ demographic will cling to their aging PC/Mac/iPad till the magic smoke pours out of the case. And they've not upgraded their OS, well, EVER. (Hint: Not everybody is online to play Fortnite.)


I'm feeling better now. Really.

@Waco Joe: Oh, man, Cuneiform =| was great, but they ruined it with Cuneiform =||_|

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