"On the plus side you can see it in less than an hour" Topic

From 2 hour and 35 minutes to 46 minutes !

But it does have a few plot holes….

Star Wars "Fan" makes a cut version of Last Jedi that removes women:

link

Mockery ensues. Quite Rightly.

Does it ever occur to anyone that it was probably done as a joke?

If we cut out similar scenes from 'Wonder Woman' I wonder what's left.

Does it ever occur to anyone that it was probably done as a joke?

If only that were the case.

While it *may* have been made as a joke, there are lots of fanboyz who applaud it, and think that "wimmin" have no place in "manly" sci-fi.

To which I say: Idjits.

At this point in human history there are enough people around that there's someone to believe every idea, however worthy or unworthy. So no matter how dumb an opinion is, someone, somewhere, believes it. And thanks to journalists who need horrible headlines for people to click on, these people are located and announced to the world, instead of left to molder in some unvisited forum somewhere. Truly, the wonder is not that someone thought this was a good idea or that The Guardian made it into a headline. The puzzle is why we are paying attention to it.

Now if a million people believe something awful, it's time to ask questions about how that came to be, what it means, where it might lead, how to address it. But just because a handful of kooks believe something doesn't mean we need to give the issue any attention.

I have a couple of complaints about The Last Jedi, but this won't fix any of them. On the other hand, this is a great conversation starter and I just had a great conversation about Star Wars with my daughter. We are both made about the same things. She's already mad about some things in episode 9, which I think is just getting ahead of ourselves.

Uh…women weren't the problem in the film. A bad script, bad acting by one woman, bad characterization, and terrible plot ideas were the problems. I'd like Laura Dern's character to be removed because she was a.) declaiming, not acting, b.) speechifying random vague nonsense that had nothing to do with the plot but was clearly there for political reasons, c.) invented and introduced out of whole cloth "at the very last minute and at great expense" (cue Ecuadorian llamas), d.) utterly pointless to the outcome of the story, from presence to statements to action. The character came from nowhere, was nobody, said effectively nothing of note, and died for no real purpose whatsoever. Removing her from the story changes nothing in its progression, except lessening the length of time in the theatre and relieving the suffering of the audience.

You didn't like it then ?

It wasn't, for me, the best entry in the series – it was also a long way from the worst. I enjoyed it for what it was.

Vice-Admiral Holdo (Laura Dern) is actually essential in the new trilogy's redefining of what being a true hero is all about: link

It's a fresh new perspective on the SW universe.

(Spoiler alert, in case we still need that in this thread.)

Funny, having thought about this over the day I realized what may have set these folks off. In episode 8 the women are always right and the men are always wrong. Holdo knows better than Dameron how to get the fleet away. Rose knows better than Finn. Rey knows better than Kylo Ren. Leia knows better than everyone, but that's okay. Rey wants Luke's help but he doesn't want to advise her, but she turns out to be right and he does.

On the other hand, the Star Wars trilogy had a lot of sexism in the first few movies, so maybe they were trying to balance things out.

The Vanity Fair article is flawed, though. The movie was filmed and entirely written before 2017, so even though it was released in late 2017 it's silly to think it's a response to anything in 2017.

I don't care about this, my issue is that I don't really care about the characters. I don't know what's going on in Rey's head until someone else tells her what she's thinking/feeling. I don't care about Holdo. I care about Leia, but it feels like she's barely in the movie. I feel like I would care about Po Dameron if I knew anything about him, but since I haven't read the comic books all I know is that he's a pilot. I like Finn and Rose, but nothing they do affects the plot in any way; they're a sideshow, they set out to help, but after a lot of actions that contradict their words they don't do much.

And I'm annoyed that the thing that bugged with with episode 6 is back. It bugged me that redeeming Vader's soul was more important than saving a lot of red shirts. While the rebel alliance was fighting for survival on the moon of Endor Luke the Jedi is on the half-built death star, trying to talk sense into his father. Sure, maybe Luke knew everything was going to turn out okay for the rebels, and maybe that's what Luke would really do, but it was a bit much to expect us to care more about Vader repenting than saving the rebellion. Same thing in 8, Luke and Rey seem to have more concern for Ben Solo than the rebellion. Feels wrong.

Nothing to do with the thread but I'm glad I got that off my chest. I finally put in to words what bugged me about Return of the Jedi thirty five years ago. Closure at last!

Yep. Didn't like it.

My example of you-know-who was actually a problem that occurred throughout the entire movie. NOBODY does anything that has any lasting impact or furthers the story, except for one sequence, which, in the end, doesn't change anything for the heroes either. Every major plot element winds up fizzing out or ultimately serving no purpose at all.

Plus, gravity bombs IN SPACE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Blehh.

They clearly have artificial gravity, so why not gravity bombs? Actually, I am embarrassed to say that I didn't notice at the time that the bombs were "dropping" without gravity.

As far as no one doing anything of lasting impact, I think that's a case of the intentionally frustrating middle episode of a trilogy plan. I do not really care for this plan. You can have progress even while things are frustrating, even while leaving room for the third movie. What we got was the set ups for several dramatic confrontations, which is not bad, without any major progress except a) all those confrontations are now out of the way and b) the entire resistance is now small enough to fit on the Millennium Falcon. Oh, c) Rey doesn't have a light saber any more. Snoke is dead, which is nice. Luke is dead, which is too bad because I enjoyed his character well enough. With he and Han gone and Leia likely to have a very small part in episode 9, the list of things I care about is now down to, um, Chewbacca and the Millennium Falcon.

But don't get the idea I hated this movie or that I'm one of the crackpots signing the petition to have it stricken from the canon. I liked it, I guess. I was just terribly disappointed.

So they changed it to a princess movie?

I disagree. Subplots that don't "advance the story" can still be interesting and worthwhile. Rose and Finn's mission on the casino planet is still interesting even if it didn't go anywhere because we learn that its upper class sells arms to both sides and oppresses an underclass. It's the same reason why some of the diversions and side missions in the game 'Fallout' (any edition) happen to be the best ones. Sometimes it's enough to just immerse yourself in another slice of the universe (Star Wars or otherwise) without expecting the overall story to be advanced.

In television, episodes that don't advance the overall story arc or go anywhere are called "fillers," and there are some really good ones too.

As for the focus on redemption and personal relationships rather than a cause, that's melodrama. SW has always been about people and characters and the belief that, no matter who you are, you can be redeemed even if it's been more wrong than right.

Rey's brief flirtaion with Kylo before they went their separate ways is one of my favorite parts of the movie.

Sorry, but to me TLJ is still the best after TESB.

Dave (part-time movie blogger). See my movie comments at: link

Oh, I agree there are "middle episode" problems. In part because I think they crammed two movies into one movie, and tried to tell a reverse RotJ and TESB. No spoilers in my post as to what that constitutes, though 28mmFanatik just blew that. (Dude!)

TESB had problems, but at the end the story was advanced and the audience and the heroes were in a new place with new understandings.
Han had been captured (plot hook for next movie), Han and Leia were definitely in love, Luke (and we) had discovered that, shock of shock, Vader was his father!!!, and that there was "another hope" out there, a potential Jedi like Luke, identity unknown. The story had progressed, with big changes, but with big possibilities, too. The movie *was* a bridge to something to come next, BIG somethings.

TLJ doesn't have any of this. At the end, there are no surprises to build on. No mysteries left. No plot hooks. The only question is what are they gonna do with Leia, because the actress is dead. Otherwise the situation at the end is the same as at the beginning. Only the identity of the latest emperor has changed, and he was already the bad guy, with no suprises in store for us regarding who he is, who he was, or even why he turned bad. (Just that he had the Dark Side in him. Wow. Condemn on spec much there, Luke?) Even the "news" that the arms-makers sold to both sides wasn't that much of a shock (and was honestly just a retread of worn-out 1960's anti-capitalist peacenik rhetoric), or anything most of the audience would have cared emotionally about (if adults) or understood (if children). It wasn't like the heroes were going to do anything like suddenly become non-violent protestors outside of bomb factories; they were (and still are) going to find weapons to kill Stormtroopers with, because the cause of the war in the movies still isn't industrial, it's political (albeit somewhat vaguely expressed, although maybe apparently having to do with child labor at casino racetracks?).
So, in the end, the film failed to further the overall story, serving only to cut off old ones in unsatisfying ways, and built no bridge to anything to come.
One big, long, boring mess, with no reason to go on.

Very disappointing. And, despite (indeed, because) of the ending, I have little hope for the future of the Star Wars franchise.

(My one caveat is Ron Howard and the Solo movie; at last, a truly talented director is at the helm of a Star Wars film. Plus, it won't have Laura Dern or Emo Ren in it. So that's looking up, at least.)

The Casino planet side-story may turn out to be important – looks as if there's an untapped potential Jedi cleaning out the stables!