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"When Chess is Outlawed, Will Wargaming Be Next?" Topic


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Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian24 Jan 2016 7:16 p.m. PST

Saudi Arabia's top cleric has declared the playing of chess "forbidden," calling it a waste of time and money that creates hatred between players…

link

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP24 Jan 2016 7:26 p.m. PST

Yeah, I've spent so much money on chess. Over the last forty years I may have blown a whole forty bucks on it. Outrageous!!

Personal logo Editor in Chief Bill The Editor of TMP Fezian24 Jan 2016 7:44 p.m. PST

that was quite a bet, Parzival! evil grin

PzGeneral24 Jan 2016 7:47 p.m. PST

Sheesh…..

zoneofcontrol24 Jan 2016 7:50 p.m. PST

They can take my Queen when they pry her from my cold, dead fingers.

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP24 Jan 2016 9:52 p.m. PST

Not a bet, just the price of the wooden travelling set I bought twenty years ago at a woodcraft shop. grin

Pictors Studio24 Jan 2016 10:50 p.m. PST

Well somebody sucks at chess.

altfritz25 Jan 2016 4:54 a.m. PST

Huh, a Saudi worried about "hatred".

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP25 Jan 2016 6:00 a.m. PST

Wargamging is a tougher one as Islam has issues with the representation of living things (iconography) as it relates to and promotes certain types of false worship (idolatry). This is a particularly tense subject as the community of Islam has been dealing its implications with respect to mass visual media since about the mid 60's.

Bringing in wargaming creates issues beyond iconography with respect to the relationship between the players and the artifacts (figures, but also terrain, markers, etc.) of the game. While most of us like to envision our player selves as "commanders" in the field, very little of wargaming player activities directly mirror actual commander behaviours. In fact, a substantial part of the activities have players "controlling" the universe itself – applying the effects of physics and time to the artifacts.

Randomizers (dice, cards, etc.) also would have issues. A lot has to do with your perspective on what gambling is. If you consider it to be wagering something of value on the outcome of an event over which you do not exert control … well, we don't (usually) wager actual money or goods on wargames. But do we wager pride? … sense of accomplishment? … self worth? In Islam, self actualization is extremely important. In a way, pretty much anything that motivates you to win can be said to be part of your psyche of value.

Of course, there are counter arguments to these points of view. But those require insights into what actually happens in wargames instead of casual observation of behaviours and artifacts from the outside.

Well somebody sucks at chess.

More likely, someone doesn't have a good understanding of what chess is. Some of the Muslims in the article who are not particularly affected by the fatwa likely have some of that as their attitude. They consider the cleric to have a great understanding of one part of the issue … the scriptures … but not enough understanding of chess is to apply that understanding to the situation.

Terrement25 Jan 2016 7:55 a.m. PST

The real story behind this is that he showed the game to his young niece in order to prove to her convincingly that women lacked the mental skills and focus to play such a complicated game. After a very short period of time, she picked it up naturally and might even have been a prodigy – as she began to routinely kick his butt all over the board and continually surprise him with unconventional moves he could not comprehend – seemingly a mistake but actually being played as a set-up to Checkmate! just a few turns later.

Hence the Fatwa. The "spin" is just a smoke screen cover. No one has seen the niece in a while…

RavenscraftCybernetics25 Jan 2016 8:59 a.m. PST

is backgammon still ok?

Personal logo Parzival Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2016 12:13 p.m. PST

Wait 'til he hears about D&D! laugh

Personal logo Tacitus Supporting Member of TMP25 Jan 2016 12:33 p.m. PST

Islam has gone back and forth over chess for over a thousand years. It has been called forbidden (less for idolatry than for wasting your -God given-time on a trivial pursuit), to encouraged (in light of Muhammed's call that believers should study military things), and everything in between. Hamza Yusuf wrote an article on it (I can't find the link). Since there is no single arbiter of the faith in all of Islam, the question of chess and everything else will continue to change. Maybe it could be decided over a game of chess (or DBA)…

Henry Martini26 Jan 2016 6:45 a.m. PST

On the question of the depiction of the prophet, in the DBM Arab Conquest list it was mandated that his person be represented by a tent.

Personal logo etotheipi Sponsoring Member of TMP26 Jan 2016 8:16 a.m. PST

is backgammon still ok?

People actually gamble over backgammon.

Winston Smith26 Jan 2016 12:24 p.m. PST

When chess is outlawed, only outlaws will play chess.

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