"Belichick and Patriots Caught Cheating Again" Topic

Man, you just can't make this stuff up:

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Now, I see how Brady's receivers caught so many balls in the pouring rain.

Seems to me the fair thing to do is fine the coach an entire year's pay, ban him from the NFL, and have New England forfeit the game, in order to send the proper message to the rest of the NFL.

Of course, in the National Felon's League (NFL), that'll never happen, but it should.

So, the moral to the story is cheat as much as you can, and don't get caught, and even if you do, don't worry, since the NFL will only enact lame punishment for your transgressions.

Who says "cheaters never prosper"?

Belichick and the Patriots seem to prove just the opposite.

Oh get over it. Pontificate when there is proof.

I'm not outraged. Not even surprised.

There is proof.

They tested the balls – I forget how many (more than 10), and all but one or two (IIRC) were underinflated.

forget how many (more than 10)

12 balls. 1 was OK and the others were 2 lbs light.

For the record, I am not sure what that proves. We will know in a few days.

If they were using the same balls, why didn't the Colts receivers catch the balls thrown by Luck?

They don't change the ball when they change possession, so the Colts used the same balls as the Patriots.

Oddball, actually there are changes of equipment.

Watch the officials between plays and you will see them
retrieve a ball from the 'ball boys,' and it may or
may not be a ball provided by the team then on offense.

I don't think underinflated balls, if true, had anything
to do with Luck's QBR for the game (17.7 – abysmal for a
Number 1 pick with 3 years' experience) or his passer
rating (23, same abysmal…).

I thought that Luck would play an excellent game, perhaps
the 'dome stadium' curse applied, I don't know. The rain
affects each team, BUT when you are not used to playing
in it, it must affect the 'dry' team more than the team
which plays in the elements.

I have to go now and start a new rumor that preceding the
game, Belichick hired a group of Wiccans to ensure that
it would rain on game day and, given their success, is
seeking Apache/Navajo sachems to do up a rain chant -
oh, wait – it's a dome with a sliding top…hmmmm

They don't change the ball when they change possession, so the Colts used the same balls as the Patriots.

I'm not so sure that is how it works. Each team brings 12 balls to the game. They are used for their side, presumably to prevent the home team from shenanigans. I suspect it is an old rule. Kicking balls ARE slightly less inflated for whatever reason.

You guys do realize that this is all just Pro Wrestling-style theater, to keep people all excited over the two week gap before the Superbowl, right?

I miss the days when they didn't feel the need to manufacture "scandals" to harvest even more millions…
-Kle.

. Each team brings 12 balls to the game.

I've seen that commonly reported, too, but that is not what the NFL says.

nfl.com/rulebook/ball

One article suggested folks were conflating the NCAA procedure with the pro rules. I guess it helps stoke the angst.

Rick

Good catch (no pun intended).

'What difference did it make? It would help both teams.' I would ask, 'Why did they do it?' The deflated the balls after they were checked by the officials. They must have had a reason. Whatever the reason, rational or not, their intent was to gain some advantage by doing so. That's enough to be punished. But like others, I doubt it will be more than a hand slap.

As for whether or not the Colts and Patriots used the same balls, I would note that the issue arose when a Colt defensive player intercepted a Patriots pass and noted a difference. Maybe Luck and his receivers noted the difference as well but didn't complain, but I doubt it.

NFL finds there was monkey business:

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As far as I am concerned, whether or not it was intentional (and I find it hard to believe it wasn't) the Patriots should be disqualified. Straight up.

If they are NOT disqualified then the rules are meaningless and there is no point in having them. Just let teams buy their way into the bowl via straight fee.

link

Apparently Biden "having been a receiver, I like a softer ball."

Once again Crazy Uncle Joe delivers.

"According to ESPN, 11 of the 12 game balls were found to be underinflated by about 2 pounds each. The NFL specifications say they must be inflated to 12½ to 13½ pound"
…

"A league spokesman declined to comment Tuesday, and earlier in the day, NFL executive vice president Troy Vincent told Pro Football Talk that the investigation would ideally be complete within two or three days."

ESPN is not the NFL. Everyone is quoting the same guy from ESPN, so its not official yet.

Each team supplies it's own balls for each game.

When a ballboy tosses a ball to the refs at the start of each change of possession, it's up to the ref to determine if a ball is over or under inflated.

I was at the game and at one point in the third quarter, he tossed two balls back to the Patriots ballboy and delayed the start of the play, was wondering what was going on there.

To avoid nonsense like this in the future, how about if the NFL supplies BOTH teams with balls for each game and hires their own ballboys.

Prett idiotic thing to do if it comes out that this was intentional; the Patriots could have beaten that Colts team playing with a bag of flour, no need to pull nonsense like this.

This is just another story that will fuel the nationwide Patriot hate that exists; Mako11 is going to have a stroke over this for example.

Relax Chief; you'll live a lot longer, talk about getting all torked off over nothing.

Reading your posts makes me laugh though, so keep it up, you're doing a great job of entertaining me.

"According to a National Football League letter about the investigation into the controversy that was shared with the Globe, the Patriots were informed that the league's initial findings indicated that the game balls did not meet specifications. The league inspected each of the Patriots' 12 game balls twice at halftime, using different pressure gauges, and found footballs that were not properly inflated."

That, actually IS the NFL, right? At least according to the Globe.

The first half where the Patriots scored one touchdown thanks to a fumbled punt and Brady threw an INT that resulted in a Colts touchdown?

Wow, what a huge advantage that gave them in the first half; they destroyed the Colts in the second half AFTER the underinflated balls were removed.

But don't tell Mako11, he wants Belichick banned from the NFL and the AFCCG winner removed from the Super Bowl.

Awesome.

"Mako11 is going to have a stroke over this for example."

One would hope… 8)=

Much ado about nothing.

From this article a few things I noticed.

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1) The officals were notified of this BEFORE halftime when the score was 17-7. At least 1 offical touches the ball between each play, yet none noticed anything wrong until 1/2 time.

2) On the first play from scrimmage after the opening kickoff of the third quarter, the officials held up the game for a minute and ultimately switched out the game ball. In the second half, "after the officials seemingly corrected the ball issue", the Patriots scored 28 unanswered points.

3) It seems that this not that unusual in the NFL. Arron Rogers told Phil Simms that he likes an over inflated football:

‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do, and see if the officials take the air out of it.'

Brady has said in the past he prefers an under inflated ball. It appears that teams do this as to the desires of their QB.

4) The NFL allows changes to the football:

'teams are allowed to slightly doctor the footballs to their preference. "Rubbing up" the football with dirt to make it less slippery is common, and so is slightly adjusting the inflation levels.'

In Nov. the Panthers and Vikings were warming thier balls, excuse me, footballs, up on the side lines during a cold game, which I guess in NOT allowed.

So, what I seeing is there was a problem with how the footballs were adjusted to Brady's tastes. Don't know if intentional or not, but seems this happens often in the NFL.

When the issue was brought to the attention of the officals they corrected it in the second half and the Patriots scored 28 unanswered points.

I'm not seeing a big deal here.

Nicely said!

And if someone broke into your house but you stopped him before he stole anything would you tell the police, 'Hey, it didn't matter. Don't bother to prosecute.' I don't hate the Pats or the Seahawks, but I despise both coaches for their rank dishonesty.

If it's no big deal, why isn't the team admitting to deflating the balls on purpose?
Someone deflated the balls after they were examined by the referees at the start of the game, and deflated them below the NFL minimum. I doubt a ball boy took such action of his own volition. It had to have occurred on the orders of Tom Brady and/or his QB coach. If so, they should come out and admit it. But no, they'll try to hide behind silence, or in the end blame the ball boy or some other minor flunky, who will lose his job and livelihood because he did what his bosses told him to do (notably at the implied danger of losing his job and livelihood if he didn't). The little guy is gonna get screwed on this one.

"The refs should have noticed."? Really? The refs are only placing the ball on the field, not doing runs, handoffs, passes and catches with them. I doubt the refs would really note the difference as being that great on casual handling.

But you betchya that Brady knew. He knew the balls had been doctored to his preference. You think a ball would be placed in his hands that wasn't in the condition he wanted it to be in, and he wouldn't complain to high heaven? Yeah, he knew, even if his head coach didn't (possible, by the way, that The Hoodie did not know. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, despite his past transgression).

Yes, the effect on the outcome of the game is probably nonexistent. The Colts were the strongest team from the weakest division in the weakest conference this year. They were doomed the minute they entered the play-offs, much less that stadium. Whining about deflated balls doesn't change that. The Colts managed not to have a sucky season primarily because most everyone else they played sucked worse than they did. Texans? Jags? Titans? Pffffft. As for the Broncs, Peyton the Great has a history of folding in the play-offs. That was no Super-Bowl team either. So in the championship game, sucks-less-than-the-other-suckers met superb and superb won.

But so what? The standard of a professional league is the integrity it sets. And integrity says you play by the rules. Not just the rules that are convenient to you, or just the rules that you think are important, or just the rules you think you'll get caught if you break them. You play by them all. Brady didn't. Brady ought to be punished.

So yes, send the Pats on to the Super Bowl. They were gonna be there anyway. But fine Brady, embarrass his cocky butt publicly, take away the draft picks, and send the message, "Play better than everybody else, if you can, but play by the rules."

And they sure as hell better not fire that ball boy unless they fire Brady too.

Go Seahawks.

Dammit!
15 yard penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct!
Pop a gauge in the ball BEFORE Gronkowski gets to spike it. That probably blows 2 psi at the very least.

It's just like pine tar. Negate the play.
Tempest in a teapot.

Why are the Patriots denying everything? For the same reason players deny they hold or interfere.

Just heard on ESPN (are we DHed for poo pooing ESPN like we are for FOX?) that the balls were checked at halftime and re inflated. Then they were put back in play. That shows how big a deal it was.
It didn't even deserve a finger wagging.

The reality here is this is much ado about nothing and a convenient excuse for those jealous of the Patriots' successes to attack. Please do not say this is same as someone breaking in into your home or this is pure evil. It is a game. A game with rules that all teams bend. Tampa Bay bribed ball boys to fix the game balls in a super bowel. Players use sticky to help hold onto balls. Domed stadiums pipe in extra load noise. Other quarterbacks inflate or deflate balls depending on their liking. It is all out there just when your team does it (and yes they do) its gamesmanship and when the Patriots do it it's cheating. As to the Colts I would take them more serious except the Patriots manhandled them the last three times they played. None of the games were close. So like in 2003 when the Colts could not beat t h e patriots on the field they changed the rules. Yes they changed the pass interference rules. Now 14 years,later still cannot beat the Patriots.

Someone please close the teapot lid. The tempest
noise is becoming quite annoying…

Equipment crap happens in all sports, at all levels.

The outcry here is because Belichick has been accused
(and found out) of doing things 'on the edge' and of
figuratively at least thumbing his nose at the rules.

(A) move the edge (change the rules/procedure) (B)
provide a meaningful penalty.

I feel sorry for Kraft in all this. He's a straight
up guy who now has another embarrassing situation with
which to deal, whether shenanigans went on or not.

I'd let him discipline his employee (Belichick) if he
(Kraft) feels the need.

As a Colts fan, I have to agree that the better team won. The Pats dominated every phase of the game. They would have won even without using under-inflated footballs. So fine them, if that's warranted, but the idea of disqualifying them is silly.

I have a lot of respect for the Patriots team, but very little for their head coach. Belichik is obviously very knowledgeable about the game, tough, and an excellent strategist. But he seems to (unneccessarily) be a win at any cost kind of person for whom breaking rules isn't cheating unless you get caught (and maybe not even then). He doen't need to take the low road to win, but he does. And that's where he loses my respect. But hey, he's just doing his job. Pro sports is about money, and money is about winning. So there ya go go. Pats fans be proud of your team, but not of your coach.

Well, they made it to championship. You are telling me their receivers can't catch? The ball needs to be there, doesn't it? This is more NE bashing by envious football media. They need to accept it; NE is the best team. End of story.

When I was a kid, we used to under-inflate balls all the time. We did it because it helped us to grip the balls better for passing and catching. Fully inflated balls also hurt when you tried to catch or kick them when it was 25 degrees outside. But that was in the sandlot.

I'm a Giants fan. I've always loved Belichik even after he went to the Browns and Pats. His teams were my 2nd favorites. I also admire Brady. I think he's a great quarterback…maybe the greatest.

Even with the Giants Belichik pushed the envelope. For example, I remember Giant defenders "accidentally" bumping the ball with their foot to force the Ref to stop the game so he could reset it. It slowed down hurry-up offences. They'd get flagged from time-to-time, but they were pretty good at it.

If his is cheating, there will have to be consequences. I hope it isn't.

All that said, I'll probably be pulling for the Seahawks. I like teams with tough defenses.

Let me make sure I understand this:

Pats used underinflated balls to help their offense,
right ?

So, with underinflated balls in place, they
scored 17 points (first half), right ?

Officials found the issue and had the underinflated
balls corrected at start of second half, right ?

Pats, using correctly inflated balls, 'only' scored
28 straight points in second half, right ?

So there is a clear advantage to the Pats to using
underinflated balls, right ?

NOT !!!

This is really silly and smacks of all the 'ground crew'
scandals from MLB in the 50's and early 60's – and you
can find some of that in today's MLB.

Fact: QB's have, in previous Superbowls and Championship
games, paid equipment tenders to inflate balls to a
pressure which the QB's liked, in some cases BEYOND
the 13 PSI specified, in some cases less than the 12.5
PSI lower limit. Where was the hue and cry ?

But this is Belichick, and he may or may not have had a
single thing to do with it. If it was purpose-done, I'd
bet on Brady having the ball boys to do it since he likes
a 'softer' ball.

But that's speculation. We all know about 'plausible
deniability' in government – why not in an NFL team ??

This is according to a national TV news program I saw tonight. Sorry, but I can't recall which of the networks.

"A previous NFL study looking at ball pressure and success rates found that quarterbacks and receivers had a 1.5% better chance of completing a pass with a ball that was underinflated by 2lbs."

The national 'media' is so full of idiot newscasters
that I rarely listen to them anymore.

I get a lot of news from international sources, some of
if OK, a lot of it dreck, but if you look diligently,
you can find a gem or two here and there.

For US news, there are feeds from different sources.
If you have Windows 8.1, check out the news portion.

From the horse's mouth. link

Pretty well reasoned.

First question that "they" will ask Brady at his own press conference today will be "Will you be able to play with all those bus tire tracks all over your back?"

Ed nails it for the 4,457th time;

So in the first half, with underinflated footballs, the Patriots score 17 points, plus Brady throws an INT that results in a Colts touchdown.

In the second half, playing with properly inflated footballs, they score 28 points and win the game 45-7.

SO, someone who's not a Patriots hater explain what advantage they had.

Much ado about nothing, but because it's the Patriots and Belichick, everyone is up in arms.

Can't wait to hear what the NFL comes up with on this; unless they've got a ballboy on camera deflating balls, what actual proof do they have, not to mention; what actual proof do they have that the refs used a pressure gauge on the footballs?

If this is something the Patriots AND ONLY the Patriots have been doing, why is this the first time they got caught?

If Brady prefers a softer football, why hasn't this been discovered in the past 14 years.

This is 1000% driven by Patriot hate, or put another way, Patriot envy.

Keep on hating.

Belichick: "Shocked, shocked."

I say ban them from the NFL, or is that going too far?

Well, if underinflating the ball below league specs doesn't really matter, then why do it?
The facts are, one team played fair, and one cheated.
We don't know that if Brady used a football within regulation, that he would not have fumbled on the first play. We will never know. Why ? Because New England cheated. Because of that FACT, we will never know what would of happened if both teams had played on a even field. One play could have changed the whole game. Period. But apparently to all but New England fans, New England was too chicken to find out.
I can say this. If a team representing the United States pulled this kind of crap, I would be deeply ashamed…. Unless of course we no longer represent truth and honesty. Make all the excuses you wish, this was underhanded and not what I would want representing me at all, and I would make no excuses for it. Man Up.

Don't the refs actually touch the ball on almost every play?

I wonder how they didn't catch this.

As for the game, Indy got their ass handed to them. Sorry Colts fans, but that's the fact. For the record I am ambivalent to either team here and don't care who won.

Packer fans are the ones that really should be upset about last weekend. Also didn't really care who won here.

I think the most likely story is both teams inflated the footballs to their QB's liking and the refs didn't check them.

Ooooops.

Don't blame the refs who are responsible for the condition of the balls and handle them before each and every play. The ball judges touch the footballs more than the QB does in a game. They should know. Besides they are the ones responsible for them starting two hours before kickoff.

I'm just so glad that Brady's press conference put all questions to rest.

Winston, you have taken on the OFM's gift for irony…

I heard it on the radio and he was semi believeable.
Then when I saw the tape, his pants were on fire.

From what I understand, sample balls from each team's supply are checked with a pressure gauge by referees before the start of the game (or at least that's what's supposed to happen). So either the referees failed to check the balls properly, or the balls were deflated after this check.

Former QBs and other highly respected players are stating that Brady's claim of not knowing or noticing the condition of the balls is BS. One QB described the pre-game ball selection process that goes on between every QB and his equipment manager, specifically feeling and testing each ball before it goes in the game bag. So whatever balls Brady told them to use were either deflated to begin with or deflated later, the latter action which simply would not occur deliberately without his direct approval.

Some have argued that the balls were simply deflated by the weather, but the information we currently have implies that only the Patriots' QB footballs were deflated, not the kicking balls, nor any of the Colt's footballs. Unless there was some radical difference in how these different balls were stored during the first half, which is highly unlikely, what accounts for the difference, if weather is the factor? Furthermore, if weather is the factor, why didn't the weather similarly deflate the balls in the second half (which we also know did not happen)? And, as the temperature on the field was merely 51°F, it raises the question as to why games played in much colder temperatures throughout the season do not end up with similar reports of even greater pressure loss. Perhaps no one has ever noticed before, which seems highly unlikely, or such incidences have never been publicly reported before, which seems more plausible given the NFL's tight-lipped policies, but still NO similar media reports until now? Hmmmm.

At this stage, the only thing that really boosts Brady's claim to not knowing what happened is that he selected "by feel" under-inflated balls without knowing the actual pressure, and nobody bothered to check what it really was, or at least didn't tell him that the pressure levels were illegal. This may be the most plausible explanation that would excuse Brady's statement.

I'm inclined to believe, however, that Brady knew, and just threw his equipment people under the bus.

I don't hate the Patriots.

In fact, I rather admire their remarkable performance, overall.

However, when you read about stuff like this, and all of Belichick's other cheating scandals, it tends to tarnish their record, which is probably a good thing.

Brady is on the record stating he prefers underinflated balls.

His interview yesterday went swimmingly, and had guilt written all over it. He couldn't have been less convincing when he said "he" didn't deflate the balls, or know about it.

Of course, "he didn't" deflate them. He, and/or Belichick, or both had a lackey do that for him/them.

I'm surprised the NFL officials don't supply the balls, and control them. Lesson learned, there, or should be, I suspect, but probably won't be, given the NFL.

As for wishing me to have a stroke over the issue, that IS a classy comment, Nazrat.

I see you are living up to your screen name.

It is disturbing to hear it's ok or incosequential to violate the rules since in some minds it had no effect on the outcome. We all play games with rules we as gentlepeople are expected to respect and comply with. I for one would never again play against a cheater nor would I put much stock in such a person's past victories after that. "….Gee I have no idea who streched my ruler on the Xerox machine" would fall on my deaf ears as I would not be in earshot. It doesn't matter who did it…someone discredited the organization and all involved are smeared.. again! Too bad for the innocent.

I do not suffer poor sportsmanship.

The latest spin is that they're "focusing on a Patriots' locker room attendant."

Right. Some lowly nobody locker room attendant took it upon himself to sneak over and grab the conveniently unattended sack of QB balls after the referee's inspection, and while no one was looking, carefully let air out of eleven of those balls before anybody saw him, because… because… uh… because why, exactly?

The coverup is always worse than the crime.

Seems more like since the NFL made so much of this and now cannot find anything they are grasping at straws.