"Wearing medals on civilian clothes" Topic

I watch a lot of shows on the History Channel (when it actually bothers with history…) and the Military Channle.
One thing I noticed when they are interviewing old veterans is that Russian and British veterans wear their medals on their civilian jackets or sweaters and that Americans do not, or hardly ever do.
Is there a reason for this?

In the UK case it's probably because mustered out veterans don't have uniforms anymore (apart from the beret), and because they are no longer serving it would be inappropriate to wear uniforms in any case. For important events (say Remembrance day, or being on a programme about your military service) you'll wear your medals on your best suit jacket (and maybe a your beret…). Also for the UK military, those medals are hard won (I'll pass no further comment on the Soviet vets beyond they can look like Christmas Trees sometimes). There will be campaign medals, but no equivalent of the Purple Heart.

My real question is why the Yanks do not wear them.

Check 10 USC, 772

Essentially, US retirees are authorized to wear the uniform in effect when they retired and the current uniform, within the bounds to which they were authorized (rank, medals, etc) when they retired. With very few exceptions, veterans are not authorized to wear medals without the uniform. There are a number of non-military medal pins and insignia that look like or replicate military awards that are not covered by the law.

Of course, don't trust any thing I say. Look it up for yourself, starting with 10 USC.

Miniature medals and decorations are available that can be worn particularly with formal attire. As you can see from the attached picture it can look quite smart.

link

That's a uniform, NOT 'formal attire.'

"With very few exceptions, veterans are not authorized to wear medals without the uniform."

I've been out twenty years and don't give a rat's ass what they authorize. I think it's more of a cultural thing.

I don't know what a "clithes" is but it sounds dirty! ;-)

One word. Protocol. Americans often keep their uniforms when they leave the service as they purchase theirs after the initial issue wears out. Thus, their uniforms belong to them, not Uncle Sam. Since this is so, it is not deemed appropriate to wear one's decorations without also wearing the uniform.
Having said all that, Dn Jackson is right. It's not a law. It's more of a tradition.

I think its more about. We here in the US don't feel we need to show them off and they don't mean much to any one any way.

Unless its the CMH and those guys just don't want to show it off anyway.

I don't know what a "clithes" is but it sounds dirty! ;-)

I did put in an OFFICIAL complaint. I hit the [!] button on myself.

Not exactly dirty, more like wading through a Steeleye Span Jacobite ditty.

On ANZAC Day you can wear your Dad's or another relative's medals on the right side, too.

Having said all that, Dn Jackson is right. It's not a law. It's more of a tradition.

No. It's the law – 10 USC, 770's. Federal law. Not military tradition or regulation.

can you say clithes on TMP ?

OK, it's a law. So has anybody ever been charged with it's violation? I'm in the American Legion and we wear decorations on our hats. Not an issue item at all. Yet not exactly civilian attire, either.

Sorry I put the wrongtype of picture up but miniatures are still allowed on formal attire per regulations which read

Quoted from AR 670-1 – Wear and Appearance of Army Uniforms and Insignia

a. Miniature medals are replicas of regular size medals, made to a scale of one-half the size of the original. Except for the Medal of Honor, for which there is no miniature, only miniature decorations and service medals are authorized for wear on the mess and evening mess uniforms. Personnel will not wear full-size medals, service and training ribbons, or U.S. and foreign unit award emblems with miniature medals. Only the dress miniature-size combat and special skill badges are worn with miniature medals.

b. Miniature decorations and service medals are authorized for wear on the following uniforms.

(1) Male personnel. On the Army white and blue uniforms, the white and blue mess and evening mess uniforms; and on the left lapel of formal civilian attire, when wear of Army uniforms is inappropriate or not authorized. Miniature badges are authorized for wear on the AG shade 415 shirt. (See para 29-17b for wear of combat and special skill badges with miniature medals; see paragraphs 29-17c and 29-18d for wear of combat and special skill badges on the AG shade 415 shirt.) "

OK, it's a law. So has anybody ever been charged with it's violation?

yes. But the DOJ doesn't have standing teams of agents teeming around looking for it. AFAIK, only in conjunction with genuine attempts to impersonate active duty military personnel.

I'm in the American Legion and we wear decorations on our hats. Not an issue item at all. Yet not exactly civilian attire, either.

The relationship between the Secretary of Defense, the Secretaries of the Services and veteran's organizations with respect to uniform parts is covered in the law. And the American Legion, among others, has a formal agreement with DoD about it. Again, DOJ doesn't have crack Am Legion Inspection Teams running around looking for rule breakers.

I pass, too many old Vietnam era guys wearing them wrong and with stuff they did not earn. Had a guy in last week said he thought he had a bronze star as it said campaign medal with bronze star. How can you NOT know what you have?

I got some after I got out so it does happen but really I do not even wear a ball cap with a logo unless cutting the grass or other yard work.

I have seen MOH awardees wear their medal in civilian clothing at functions but expect for functions or parades not so much.

Very much NOT an American thing.

VR
James Mattes

On ANZAC Day you can wear your Dad's or another relative's medals on the right side, too.

Not quite. Officially, Queen's Regs states that in the UK and Commonwealth Service, you can wear your Father's medals, on the right hand side, if he is deceased, with all orders of Service Dress. (Not any other relative; uncle, brother, bloke down the road who was on your paper round…) This development occured after the Great War, with an unusual degree of Fathers passing away some decades after their WW1 service owing to Poison Gas complications, leading to many serving sons wanting to represent their fathers when in uniform during WW2 or National Service… This habit has, quite rightly, been adopted by civilians…

That said, I can't see any objection to a deceased veteran's medals being worn at a suitable public event, so long as it is clear they are representing that Veteran…

I do bemoan the habit of relatives taking part in march pasts though. Its actally far more moving and pointed to watch an ever dwindling number of Veterans proudly but determindly marching past, and emphasises how precious their remaining memories are, and how much the missing ranks sacrificed for us…

At the 50th D-DAY rededication of Pegasus Bridge at Caen some years back I heard a couple of hardbitten young Paras actually choke back sobs when a Veteran gave the command 'Battalion 'Shun' to less than a dozen old boys….

I wear a miniature CIB on my suit jacket. My wife found it at an antique store. It's an in-theater manufactured piece from WWII.

I am a retired Marine, and with few exceptions (AmLegion or very formal official government functions), I view displays of medals/ribbons/awards not in uniform as strictly a vanity thing; someone with self-worth issues.

Hell, I shake my head with disappointment at bumper-sticker-ribbons (what few I have seen.)

In the UK, only officers who retire with the declared entitlement to retain their rank after retirement may wear uniform after retirement – and then only with the permission of their former regiment/corps/service. All ex-servicemen are perfectly entitled to wear their medals in formal orders of civilian dress when appropriate to do so. They're not something worn on a daily basis!

British veterans (and those of many other countries) have always worn their medals in civilian dress from the first time that medals were awarded. It's not a recent phenomenon and nor is it vanity to express pride in one's regiment/corps/service.

Regimental/corps/service associations, the Royal British Legion, etc, actually stipulate that veterans are to wear regimental blazer, beret and medals for parades. Veterans are therefore usually following the dress instructions for the parade. Personal vanity has nothing whatsoever to do with it (provided the veteran in question is entitled to wear them – the subject of 'Walts' is another discussion entirely).

Sparker, QR's actually state that it must be a 'close relative' – thus widows as well as children of the deceased may wear their spouse/father's medals on the right breast (but only when in civilian dress and never in uniform). However, this is now abused left, right and centre and a fashion to wear any old medals found in the back of the drawer seemed to start about ten years ago. I'm not at all keen on this very recent phenomenon and in many cases there does seem to be an element of vanity rather than pride in that person's achievements. I even knew someone who bought an unknown person's medals so that they could wear them on Remembrance Sunday. We had words. I'm told by the RBL that this is quite common nowadays.

I do get the odd request from my cadets (or their parents) to wear Great-Great-Great-Uncle Albert's medals from WW1 on Remembrance Sunday, but as they wear uniform, it's not appropriate (added to which, they could hardly be classed as a 'close relative'). To counter objections and letters to the Daily Mail from their parents, I get them to bring their relative's medals in, show them to the other cadets, express their pride in their relative and tell what they know about their relative and their service. I do likewise with my own great-grandfather's medals and I then encourage them to carry their relative's medals with them in their uniform pocket, so that they're 'on parade' (as it happens, this is what my wife has always done with her father's medals).

R Mark – Sorry if I was not more specific, I meant here in the USA. With other nations, different cultures w/different norms, I would judge not.

I view displays of medals/ribbons/awards not in uniform as strictly a vanity thing; someone with self-worth issues.

I've known a few that did this, and then got really snarky if people didn't heap praise on them, or buy them drinks/meals/whatever.