ScottWashburn  | 30 May 2013 7:25 a.m. PST |
SPOILERS!!!!
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It doesn't seem to have occurred to anyone, but Kirk and Spock & Co. are the BAD GUYS in the new "Star Trek: Into Darkness" movie. True, they are duped into being the bad guys, but the bottom line is that a terrorist steals the Federations newest and most powerful warship and crashes it into San Francisco, killing hundred (perhaps thousands) of people- and it is KIRK'S FAULT! If he'd just followed his orders, done what he was told, minded his own damn business, then none of that would have happened! No one is going to care that Admiral Marcus was doing something unethical to protect the Federation. Kirk helped Khan murder Marcus and bring on the San Francisco disaster. Why isn't Kirk and all the crew of the good ship Enterprise in the 23rd Century's equivalent of Gitmo? |
| RavenscraftCybernetics | 30 May 2013 8:00 a.m. PST |
Cue the MST3K theme song "repeat to yourself, Its jusr a show…" |
| jpattern2 | 30 May 2013 8:09 a.m. PST |
Collateral damage. Khan with a fully functioning starship would have been exponentially more dangerous than Khan with a dead starship re-entering the atmosphere.
You have to break a few eggs to scramble the bad guy's plans, or something like that.
Now, could Khan have stolen the starship without Kirk's help? Probably. He certainly seemed to be about five steps ahead of Marcus and everyone else. |
 John the OFM  | 30 May 2013 8:16 a.m. PST |
He is too pretty for jail. |
| ScottWashburn | 30 May 2013 8:20 a.m. PST |
jpattern2: But if Kirk had just followed his original orders and fired the torpedoes Khan wouldn't have had any starship at all. He and his people all would have been dead. End of story :) |
| Irish Marine | 30 May 2013 8:31 a.m. PST |
Because they want to make a third movie! |
| Patrick R | 30 May 2013 9:43 a.m. PST |
I can't wait for the next movie so they can once more give us the same arc with Kirk being a complete  who has to steal, lie and fight his way to the command seat once more. |
| nvdoyle | 30 May 2013 10:37 a.m. PST |
"I vast chusst following orders!" |
 Parzival | 30 May 2013 10:46 a.m. PST |
Because you are confusing "logic" with something that JJ Abrams is concerned with. Once again, this thread confirms why I have less than zero interest in seeing this film. |
| jpattern2 | 30 May 2013 3:13 p.m. PST |
jpattern2: But if Kirk had just followed his original orders and fired the torpedoes Khan wouldn't have had any starship at all. He and his people all would have been dead. End of story :) The torpedoes had all been disarmed. Spock had McCoy remove Khan's people-sicles and rearm the torpedoes before beaming them aboard the Vengeance. So following orders and firing the torpedoes would have killed all of Khan's people, but Khan would still have been alive, unless one of the torpedoes tagged him. Then he would have been even more vengeful, he would have stolen a Klingon ship, and there'd have been even more hell to pay. Or something like that. :) (Can't believe I'm defending anything in this movie. It wasn't that good.) And I'm with Patrick: Chris Pine's Kirk is so far removed from William Shatner's Kirk that I don't see a plausible way for one to become the other. It's almost like Anakin/Vader all over again. The same goes for Zoe Saldana's Uhura. Nichelle Nichols's Uhura was smart and sexy and ahead of her time and an excellent role model. Saldana's Uhura is just irritating. I do like the rest of the cast, though, especially Simon Pegg's Scotty. He doesn't look anything like James Doohan, but he's the only cast member who seems to be staying true to the character while not doing an out-and-out impression. |
| Mapleleaf | 30 May 2013 5:48 p.m. PST |
The original order could have been seen as an illegal order as it ordered a summary execution of Khan without a trial . Kirk under the Star Fleet version of the UCMJ had a duty to disobey as rightfully pointed out by Spock. |
| AndrewGPaul | 31 May 2013 3:41 a.m. PST |
Was Khan's ship shot down by the Enterprise? It didn't look that way to me. It was deliberately piloted into the atmosphere by Khan; arguably doing less damage than if he was allowed to simply fire on San Fransisco from orbit. As I understood it, Kirk thought he'd killed Khan and left a hulk in orbit, to be tidied up later. |
| richarDISNEY | 31 May 2013 8:25 a.m. PST |
DING DING DING! We hava winna here folks! Because you are confusing "logic" with something that JJ Abrams is concerned with. Yea. Lots of plot holes that you could drive the Enterprise through. I gritted my teeth through that whole flick. Well, the Marcus underwear scene was good…  JJ Assbrams is gunna RUIN Star Wars… 
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| Caesar | 31 May 2013 8:42 a.m. PST |
The torpedoes were "unarmed" but would have been armed if they had been fired.
Not only was it extra-judicial assassination that Kirk objected to, but the entire incident was meant to start a war with the Klingons.
Getting rid of Khan and crew was a fringe benefit.
Marcus sent mavricky Kirk on the mission because Kirk was known to fly off on his own. Kirk would have used all 72 torpedoes if he followed orders, killing Khan and crew, but also this was an attack on the Klingon homeworld. The Klingons would have found the disabled Enterprise (disabled by Marcus on purpose, remember) and would have proof of a Federation attack. Marcus would then get the war he wanted.
It's very much like The Undiscovered Country.
I'm surprised you guys didn't pick up on this. |
| Caesar | 31 May 2013 8:49 a.m. PST |
Remember in DS9 when Worf ruined the weather and economy of an entire planet in a fit of jealousy? He merely had to apologize for that. |
| Parzival | 31 May 2013 9:39 a.m. PST |
Yeah, and Riker nearly lost the Enterprise and the Federation as a whole to a nefarious mind-control plot because he couldn't keep his pants on. Starfleet does seem to forgive a fleet-load of stupidity in its senior officers… |
| jpattern2 | 31 May 2013 11:26 a.m. PST |
JJ Assbrams is gunna RUIN Star Wars… Yes, because Lucass (sic) left the franchise in *such* good shape. Hahaha! |
| Garand | 31 May 2013 1:03 p.m. PST |
JJ Assbrams is gunna RUIN Star Wars… He's not writing it though. Expect to see lens flare and a pretty movie from JJ's imput; writing remains to be seen. Damon. |
 javelin98 | 31 May 2013 4:18 p.m. PST |
Come now! ST:ID had 73% less lens flare! |
| ScottWashburn | 02 Jun 2013 5:31 p.m. PST |
Caesar, you are correct, but the thing you aren't picking up on is that Admiral Marcus clearly was not acting alone in his nefarious plot. There had to be some high-powered backers in very powerful positions within the Federation to get him the resources to build his superdreadnought. Those backers are not only going to be angry that their grand plan has been wrecked by Kirk & Co. but they are also going to be desperately trying to cover up their own involvement. It would be much, much easier for them to lay the blame on Kirk than wait for some Kirk & Spock inspired investigation to lay the blame on them. And the public likes things to be simple: A mad terrorist was on the loose. Kirk was ordered to kill him and had the opportunity to do so. Kirk refuses to carry out his orders. Mad terrorist turns the tables and destroys half of San Francisco. Who's to blame? Why Kirk, of course. |
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