| Last Hussar | 18 May 2013 11:53 a.m. PST |
KNEW the haters were wrong – there were not a series of adventures, they were mini-arcs leading to John Hurt as ??? |
 Doms Decals  | 18 May 2013 11:54 a.m. PST |
Thoroughly enjoyed that. :-) |
| britishlinescarlet2 | 18 May 2013 11:57 a.m. PST |
Very good….will need to go back and re-watch the series to sort out the clues…. |
 20thmaine  | 18 May 2013 11:58 a.m. PST |
Err….very clear who John Hurt is – it was in the credits. 
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| Doug em4miniatures | 18 May 2013 12:42 p.m. PST |
As always, I hadn't a clue what the heck it was all about. Doug |
| SECURITY MINISTER CRITTER | 18 May 2013 1:33 p.m. PST |
3.5 hours here. John Hurt is the new 9th, which pushes everybody up one number. |
| Delta Vee | 18 May 2013 1:51 p.m. PST |
now all i have to do is wait ( impatiantly) till november!!! |
| 20thmaine | 18 May 2013 4:00 p.m. PST |
@SMC – it's a bit confusing though as we've had two 9ths now (well 3 if we count the original 9th from the classic series – but I think we can just call "different actor" on that one). But I saw 8 go to 9, and he didn't become the 9 that he was when 8 was only 6). |
| 20thmaine | 18 May 2013 5:14 p.m. PST |
Doh ! I'm talking rubbish ! The quote is : "There is some evil in all of us, Doctor – even you. The Valeyard is an amalgamation of the darker sides of your nature, somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation, and I may say you do not improve with age." The important thing here is how to interpret "somewhere between your twelfth and final incarnation". Does this imply the 13th incarnation is the Valeyard ? Or somewhere much further down the line ? But if it's (say) the 56th incarnation, and the last is, say, the 75th – then why have 12 as the lower bound ? There's the other option – that he is a partial regeneration and not the proper completion of the process. (I do realise that Time Lords can only regenerate 12 times – but with Matt Smith being number 11 I think we can look forward to a "cheat mode" – historically there have been others who have gone past 12 regenerations) However they resolve it – it was a great episode, and a great season finale. Really looking forward to seeing what they do with the storyline. |
| PaddySinclair | 18 May 2013 8:54 p.m. PST |
Things to remember… The Great Intelligence is keen to stop the Dr NOW, before he becomes "Storm, Beast, Valyard" (for whatever reason), so Hurt's Dr is not those as Smith's knows of him already and he's the Dr's greatest secret. The Valyard being stated as between the 12th and final incarnation implies that it isn't actually an incarnation of the Dr per se, and was perhaps "expelled" by the Dr as a result of his 12th regeneration. The 12 regenerations/13 incarnations thing is not as set in stone as you might think. |
| 20thmaine | 19 May 2013 4:26 a.m. PST |
That's right – The master has already cheated it – and on Gallifray they were able to offer a "reset" of the regenerations. So, no real problem I suspect  |
| Last Hussar | 19 May 2013 4:43 p.m. PST |
The fans called ERROR when 11 had his jacket on, then off then on again in an angels episode, and it turned out Moffat had blindsided them (it was a later Doctor). Then they were moaning Clara didn't seem phase by bigger on the inside- and now we know why. The 4 theories about Hurt that seem to be out there
1) He is the generation before Hartnell- this is why he chose a new name
2) A Regen between McGann and Ecclestone, pushing everyone after up one (Smith is the 12th)
3) An older McGann/8th – aged by the time war?
4) The Valeyard The thing is, this is the Grand Moff we are talking about, who is a FanBoy- On a message board in the mid 90s (ie off air, never to be seen again) he suggested that the word 'doctor' comes from memories of The Doctor. A decade and a half later he put that in! Anyone else get the 'beekeeping' ref? |
| skinkmasterreturns | 19 May 2013 5:08 p.m. PST |
What,has the Doctor gone and got himself offed again? I lost track of Matt Smith awhile back. |
| jtkimmel | 19 May 2013 5:51 p.m. PST |
It is amusing to read the comments on IMDB about how DW is/was/has become such a horrid show. IMO, even bad or so-so DW episodes are better than most of the other stuff on tv these days. I thought this finale was great, had to do some reading to remind myself who the Valeyard was though, been a long time since I've seen any of #6's episodes, as he's probably my least favorite Doctor. |
| 20thmaine | 20 May 2013 3:29 a.m. PST |
@Last hussar I thought Hartnell was the original "never regenerated" Doctor. No ? Like ideas 2 & 3 – although does that tie in well with the Whovian fiction-verse ? I'm still going for 4 – if for no other reason that he got name checked in the episode ! |
| Old Slow Trot | 20 May 2013 6:43 a.m. PST |
Not just "a doctor",but "The Doctor".(to quote Tom Baker). |
| Last Hussar | 20 May 2013 9:08 a.m. PST |
20th Maine – Doctor No is from James Bond! |
| 20thmaine | 20 May 2013 9:52 a.m. PST |
Ba-ba-boom !
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tackles a pair of lionesses.