"Soldiers Aren't Supposed to Get Pregnant in a Combat Zone" Topic

What a concept –
link
A quote "…despite the broad wording of the policy, it is meant to apply only when pregnancies affect a unit's ability to perform its mission." Okay…

It's only because its in a Combat Zone that its news worthy Women have been getting pregnant to avoid assignments they didn't want to take for decades Well at least as far back as When I was in Active duty.

Yeah, and in Vietnam you could be punished under the Uniform Code of Military Justice for getting a sunburn or dysentery. In previous wars, contracting a venereal disease (STD for he modern kids) was punishable. Anything you can do to remove yourself from active duty is a no-no.

Not to get all Blue Fez here, but this prohibition would likely bring the issue of abortion up. I wonder if anyone's considered that consequence?

I dunno. Things seem to be moving a little too fast, here.

Well, Saginaw, that option would also entail removal from active duty for some period of time, and requiring it WOULD end up in the Supreme Court.

I think it only made the "news" because some GO actually wanted it in writing – must've given some JAG types headaches

Well better to get pregnant and out then to take a gun and start shooting people…

The military needs to remember this is the US not Nazi Germany and people here have the final human right to say NO!!!

Despite what legal contracts they signed cause most did not sign anything that said "yes I want to be shot at, blown up, or murdered by a fellow soldier…"

napthyme,

Actually, in the US military, you do sign up to get shot at, blown up, abused, made most miserable, eat crummy food, freeze, bake, drown and deal with other troops that lose it.

I don't know what army you are talking about.

If you want to say NO! -- you do that up front. Don't enlist.

mjc

Too true Quidveritas – in fact, I fondly recall a couple of young E5s getting a haircut in a Fayetteville, NC barbershop in 1984. The barber who was probably a veteran himself, asked one of the E5s how things were going. The young E5 commenced to complain about the daily things all young soldiers do. After which the barber replied, "Well, that's good to hear. 'Cuz I'd hate to hear you young soldiers had it too comfy. If you were, why the heck would you want to go off to war and fight the enemy." There is much to be said of the wisdom of elders. I was one of those E5s, not the one who bemoaned his soldierly-fate, though.

That is just the thing, the US military do NOT write in plain english that that is what they want you for and that is what your signing up for.

They write it in JAG legal lingo that will hold up in military court, yet most of these people even if they read it don't understand what it means. When they can hardly read the newspaper how do you expect them to understand that?

If they put in large letters near the signature YOUR ARE MEAT FOR THE GRINDER, YOU WILL BE SHOT AT, BLOWN UP, AND KILLED, IN THAT ORDER…

Then no one would have anything to complain about.

People have this "not me" illusion… They will send everyone else not me. I'm special they will not send me. I'm to important they need me here instead of over there.

People are people and they beleive every lie the recruiter tells them before they sign on the dotten line…

If you are not aware that in joining the army you might have to fight, shoot, get shot at, etc. then you are so stupid as to absolutely deserve whatever you get for trying NOT to serve. It doesn't matter if one has a "Not me" attitude or not-- only a Class A Moron would join up and then try to claim he was "tricked" into a dangerous situation!

"When they can hardly read the newspaper how do you expect them to understand that?" The last time I checked, recruiting standards were considerably higher than that. Or do you really think only ignorant, illiterate, morons serve their country?

It's not as clear-cut as it may seem. For instance there was a "golden boy" mid-grade NCO who took advantage of his status and sectioned off his hootch (shared with junior enlisted). He would have a female soldier in his bunk every night (same one at least). Defitely takes two to tango. He was turned in by his "roomates" mainly because he wasn't the sharing type, more so than for his unethical behavior. Long story short he was pretty much given a slap on the wrist when he redeployed and allowed to deploy on another tour. Probably promoted by now too.

The standards are much higher than they used to be! Besides it is an all VOLUNTARY force, there is no one out there dragging people in against they're will. And if by this time someone joins thinking they'll never have to use the weapon they train with everyday, they deserve what they get. Do not insult the soldiers by saying they are ignorant and don't know what they are doing when they sign up. This is probably the most intelligent fighting force in the world, do not believe otherwise!Those folks are smart!

I had 3 very close friends in the military. So anyone who thinks everyone who is in the US military is a genius is deludeing themselves. I have heard all the tales, both good and bad.

I've heard all about showing up drunk for duty, the great wall of china made out of one weekends beer cans, the bed hopping, ect.

recruiting standards are not any higher then they were 20 years ago. Were fighting a war people we need more fresh meat for the grinder. We don't give a crap what level of intellegence they have, we don't need them to think, we need them just bright enough to take orders, but stupid enough to follow them…

ask any drill seargent. he will tell you he does all the thinking for the recruits. its not a soldiers job to think its his job to take orders.

the 10% of the US military that is intellegent and highly trained is supported by the 90% who are not.

"ask any drill seargent. he will tell you he does all the thinking for the recruits. its not a soldiers job to think its his job to take orders." and "the 10% of the US military that is intellegent and highly trained is supported by the 90% who are not."

Interesting. I have friends who are drill sergeant or have been drill sergeants and am about to send my oldest to basic training in February, actually he is going to OSUT at Benning (infantry if you didn't figure that out).

The drill sergeants spend a LOT of time teaching the kids to think, take intitative, analyze situations, etc. These kids are going into combat. A huge majority of Drills are combat (multiple tours) veterans. They are sending the kids to their buddies' units. They want the kids to do well and be valuable to their units.

I've spent over five years as either a company commander or platoon leader, as has my wife (who is now a BN CDR) and have NEVER wanted or encouraged a non-thinking soldier nor allowed my NCOs to do so. I wanted kids that could think, they helped accomplish my mission.

We spend a FORTUNE ensuring our guys are THE BEST trained we can make them, no matter what their job. We cross train them, give them theater specific training, send them to all kinds of schools (heck they earn promotion points for civilain AND military education). We kick out troopers who cannot be trained (I know, I've done it).

These kids enlisting know full well what they are getting into. They see the news, read the blogs, watch they YouTube videos. Some enlist for a decent bonus (though those are going away), some for the benefits, some for the adventure, but no matter the reason, Bless them all. They know what they are doing.

So James/Napthyme, when you talk about non-thinking soldiers and a miltary that WANTS that, I say you are full of crap.

Jake

"?People have this "not me" illusion… They will send everyone else not me. I'm special they will not send me. I'm to important they need me here instead of over there."

Horse doodie, flat out.

The drill sergeants spend a LOT of time teaching the kids to think

Exactly, they want them to think the way they want them to think. They don't want some grunt questioning orders in the middle of a fire fight.

the infantry soldier is a living extansion of there commander. They don't so much as breath without orders from there commanding officer.

If you think otherwise then I'm not the only one who is full of crap….

I'm not commenting about the highly trained soldier such as a navy seal or a green beret, I'm talking about the grunts that tote 80lb field packs, and rifles and wear the cannon fodder t-shirts…

there is a HUGE difference between a grunt who passed rifle training in basic and the special forces guys who are the top of the line.

the grunts end up driving trucks, and pushing papers, and cooking meals for the 10% who are smart…

Jake until you have talked to the guys who are in the "other" side of the military from you you have no idea what your talking about.

You get to be the big commander with access to millions of dollars worth of equipment, and the best soldiers that money can train.

but if you really really think that the entire US military is full of the best and brightest the US has to offer then your delusional.

ask the guy's who make your job possible how well trained they are, every E1 grunt will tell you that this was not what he signed up for. He is only well trained to do what the military thinks he is capable of doing and if that is washing dished then that is what he got.

Not eveyone in the military gets to "be all he can be"

First, grunts (assuming you mean 11 series infantry troops) are not truck drivers, paper pushers or cooks.

Second, you are wrong, every infantry soldier is VERY well trained, gets lots of extra training at their unit, gets theater specific training, and are constantly sent to school and encouraged to continue their civilian educations when not deployed AS ARE ALL soldiers. You can't make E8 easily without at least an associate degree, and I know several Command Sergeants Major with masters degrees (and some of those are not combat arms, though some sure are).

Third, we ALL wear the same Tshirt, and none of them say Cannon Fodder. Not ONE leader, from team leader on up to the Army Chief of staff sees ANY of their troops as cannon fodder and it is disgusting to hear you think they do.

Your three (3) "very close friends" have told you a load of malarkey, if what you've said here is what you believe, based on their tales.

I've led and commanded troops when we accepted the lowest aptitude scores since the end of the Vietnam war. I've led combat soldiers (including special operations types), MI weenies (including counterintelligence agents and some folks who did very specialized collection back during the Cold War), mechanics, truck drivers, and clerks. Oh yes, and drill sergeants. You're way off base. CPT Jake knows whereof he speaks.

Allen

napthyme,

It is true there are guys that do nothing unless they get orders. If they didn't they would never do anything. Got a few of those in high school too.

But . . . when did you attend your last fire fight? Not a lot of orders being given. There are a lot of people reacting to the situation and taking action consistent with their training.

As for the truck drivers, paper pushers and cooks. You think they don't think about what they are doing and never use initiative?

Hello???? These are Americans. They cut every corner possible, hate/bypass red tape and refine their job to a high degree of efficiency (mostly so they have more time for stuff they probably should not be doing).

Again, I don't know what army you served in.

I find the recent accomplishments of the US Army to be nothing short of amazing.

I have always maintained some of the best people you will ever know, you will meet in the service and some of the worst people you will ever know you will meet in the service. I have never had any one dispute that statement. That said, best or worst, these guys are no dummies.

I will admit I have been absent from the service for a lot of years and things may have changed but it was my experience that the guy that couldn't think on his feet generally found himself going home with an honorable or a general discharge.

You certainly seem to have some rather elitist views about things. (Just for the record: I am the one that generally gets accused of being an elitist -- not sure if I like having competition). I have to wonder where this is all coming from.

mjc

Jake Grunts are grunts, to stupid to be of use any place else. trained to shoot a rifle if things are FUBAR and we have to rely on them.

Most grunts never last out more then the first 4 they signed up for, and rightly so. They signed up for the education money that is it. the military is not going to waste millions training a cook how to operate million dollar tech, that is what the tech officer is for.

and if you really think your wearing the same shirt then take command of a squad and get your hands dirty on the front lines…

"the military is not going to waste millions training a cook how to operate million dollar tech"

Bull crap, again. A MKT (Mobile Kitchen Trailer) costs over $75K with out a lot of the gear it needs. Add in the towing vehicle and the radios, the blue force tracker, the M240b in hatch, and all the other stuff the cook MUST be trained on to function in his unit and it starts to add up. (Radios alone are gonna hit close to 250K depending on type). Oh wait, now since our 92G Food Service Specialist is about to deploy he gets MRAP driver training (and each of those is a million plus), training on all the common tasks (to include first aid training as a combat life saver that would put many civilian EMTS to shame, weapons training, night vision gear training, calling in air/arty to include bringing in a MEDEVAC bird) and it stats to add up.

Heck, if our 'grunt' 92G is in the 82nd he will probably go to airborne school. If in any other divisional unit will have a chance to earn a slot to air assault school and other schools. Also if in a line brigade they will have a section of the command post they are responsible to defend so must know all the 'grunt' tasks that entails.

You really are ignorant on this subject. I've been a headquarters company commander and had 'grunt' cooks as troops. I've sent first enlistment troops to some VERY expensive schools (some combat arms guys and some not). Any time we get a new guy out of AIT he is assessed by his NCOs and provided what ever training he/she needs to be fully up to speed on the unit mission.

one of my friends who worked in the MKT and was trained to do so. Guess what…

They didn't, they left it back at base and used MRE's. The thing was not worth the time it took to set it up and use it properly…

And he didn't get half the training your talking about

But he was trained, right?

Let me make a guess here. You hang out with a couple disgruntled ex-soldiers who thought they were better than the other soldiers, looked down on fellow soldiers as stoopid robots, did not get along with the leaders as a result and did not stay in long because frankly they couldn't hang.

And because you like feeling superior and your ex-soldier buddies' stories vindicate your feeling of superiority you buy into their crap. It allows you to view soldiers as either stoopid robots or victims or both. You are comfortable with that because you cannot comprehend or accept a reality that may be vastly different from your limited view.

napthyme,

I started as an E-2. I must admit my introduction to the military was less than entirely voluntary. Managed to get posted to a flight facility and spent 6-8 months trying to get into flight school -- no luck -- found out you can do too well on those tests they give you. Served less than a year before they sent me to Medical School.

Over the years I ran into several of the folks that attended basic training with me. I'd say at least half of these guys were originally trained as cooks. Thought being a cook would keep them out of harms way -- ha!! To make a long story short. Being a military cook is a good way to get no sleep, have no life, and yes, you got to do everything the grunts did at one time or another.

All of them that I ran into later had acquired a few stripes and were serving in supervisory / management positions -- generally in a health care capacity (x-ray, clinic administrator, field hospital, ambulance, medical supply). Was kinda cool to run into them again -- they did good work and provided a personal touch to things that made my life much much easier. We worked as a team and got along much better than we ever did in basic.

My only gripe with these guys was that they insisted on saluting me (and made damn sure everyone else did the same) at every opportunity. Being a medical officer this kind of thing can be counter productive at times -- I repeatedly ordered them to cease the practice in the field.

Not a chance. Had nothing to do with respect or regulations (they were only too happy to abandon regulations with or without permission). It was their way of letting me know that no matter what the difference in rank, they were going to do things their own way anyway. Which was fine by me as long as it got done.

If I don't have to micromanage every little thing, my personal efficiency is enhanced. I got all kinds of medals and commendations for my work. These medals and commendations really belonged to the guys working for me and I regularly let them know it. It was nice working with guys that not only could take the ball and run with it -- but did so willingly.

That my friend is how the US military really works.

I guess I should also mention the fact that in the 70's and 80's the combat medics generally had higher test scores than the officers in the units in which they served. I would venture to say that a third to half of my medics went on to become officers themselves. (they would be attached to HQ from time to time and got a chance to see what the CO/XO really did -- didn't look so hard to them).

I once served in a combat engineer battalion where every officer save one was a former medic. The lone exception was a former plumber -- military trained plumber. Every one of them began his career as an enlisted soldier.

mjc

Napthyme, you obviously are getting a load of crap from your friends and you haven't a clue what the real Army is like. Jake has been there. So have I. I carry the scars and medical records to prove it. I also have a son who took my place and is on his 2d tour overseas.

Every single enlisted soldier on active duty and in the reserves enlisted or re-enlisted AFTER 9/11. They are all volunteers. Not only that, our re-enlistment rates are the highest in history. Any allegations of recruiters lying are immediately investigated by a system that is stacked AGAINST the recruiter. I spent 3 years on recruiting duty. You have to be in the top 25% to even be considered for a recruiting assignment. The Enlistment Standards Division is commonly referred to as the Gestapo for very good reasons. They do not have to prove any wrongdoing. All they have to do is show a preponderance of evidence suggests a recruiter might have done something and they ruin several careers: the recruiter, his station commander, and his company commander. Care to go to traffic court facing that standard of proof?

Our soldiers are the best trained in history. Our 'grunts' are tougher, smarter, better equipped, and better trained than even the troops who hit Normandy beach. Just to be selected for 11B Infantry training, you must score in the top 50 percentile. In other words, be above average in both education and intelligence. Once in the training, you must constantly demonstrate your mastery of a host of weapons and skills under conditions that will make most people cry.

And as for your so-called "meat grinder," check your facts. Our casualty rates are lower than the murder rates in some cities.

Partly trained yes, only his CO in the kitchen knew how to operate the entire trailer, or drive it for that matter.

The guy spent 8 years active, full time service, attached to a tank platoon in fort hood. was army rangers, yes he did the airborne training.

one other was army again trained for MWR, worked as a recreation center worker on one base and cooked at another. got out after 4 years

the last was airforce, trained as a cargo specialist, unloaded/loaded cargo plains. got out after one term.

None of them are disgruntled, but would they reccomend it to someone else, maybe but with lots of advise on not following in there footsteps as far as military branch or carrier.

and I don't feel superior. I'm a grunt and always have been from the day I was born. Life follows certain patterns, whether your in high school, millitary, or the job market. people evaluate your skill level and decide where do we put them. Those that your undecided on go into "well we need a grunt to change the lightbulbs."

doesn't mean he needs to know how to disarm a nuclear warhead, or that he is likely to get such training…

napthyme -- I don't know who you've been speaking with, but having been there and done that in the big green machine for 20 years and still working with Marines in far off places, I'm not sure where you're getting your facts. You may have in fact found the 10% who've spun a few sea stories, but unless you've actually been there and done that, prehaps you could check your facts a bit more thoroughly.

I'm amazed the CO knew how to operate the entire trailer / drive it. It's usually the E-5 that can do that kind of thing. Sounds to me like your buddy failed to step up and do the job that was needed.

My problem was that they would sometimes promote an NCO to fill an E-7 slot where he had no training or very limited training and it would take me six months to find him a home where he could prosper while ensuring the next guy was competent.

The junior officers are often just shy of worthless when they first arrive in a unit. Their lot can be quite difficult until they can bring themselves up to speed. Please note -- I said bring themselves up to speed. If they don't do this or cannot do this, they will have a rather short career as an officer.

As for the 'grunt' business, it sounds like we are getting to the root of things.

You often you get only as much as you give. Sometimes you have to give a lot more than you get initially. In American society, people often value a person most for what they know. Anyone can do manual labor and there are loads of people that are willing to do those kinds of jobs. You never get rich doing manual labor.

There are all kinds of supervisors. Some are good and some are not so good. The trick is to find someone that values your contributions. This might be a nice guy or a real SOB. It really doesn't matter so long as they are smart enough to know that keeping you around is important.

On the flip side, your contributions must be valuable in the first place. Even then there are some that will short change you. When that happens you need to move on.

I've worked for folks that are utterly malignant – paid me as little as possible and maximized the return on my work. I once worked for a cardiologist that rather bluntly told me, "I'd hire you back in a heart beat but I'll never pay you what you are worth". A true capitalist. Needless to say, I didn't waste my time with this guy. I appreciated his honesty but life is too short to spend it banging your head against the wall.

However, if you really want to find out what you are worth, you need to work for yourself. That way you get paid exactly what you are worth.

At this point it sounds like you may need a little education to enhance your prospects. Might want to explore that avenue a little bit.

mjc

Napthyme, I realize I am piling on, but I think you get an unrepresentative view of the military. One that can easily come from even mildly disgruntled folks. Part of psychological reality is that you tend to emphasize the bad when you are leaving (a job, a marriage, an area, the military). This makes parting easier. The don't know anything, abused by command thing can come up, but is again, I believe unrepresentative of reality.
Example 1. While at Fort Drum in command of a USAF weather unit supporting 10th Mountain, we had a divisional field exercise in October. One of my unit's tasks was to get water temperature readings from the swamps an infiltration was supposed to cross, then work with medical to determine how long the guys could have how much of themselves immersed. Two Star Divisional COmmander was concerned about exposure.
Example 2. We are deployed in Haiti and reports are coming in that Haitians with rifles are on rooftops pointing weapons at our convoys. Command goes nuts, very direct that even holding a weapon under those circumstances should trigger action. This is less than a year after the guys were in Somalia, much of Divisional staff was on the ground during the Blackhawk Down deal. Politically it would have been tricky to start hosing the populace, but force protection was a priority.
I saw some silliness, and things that make you go hmmm

MJC I am self employeed and have been for the last 9 years now. I've built a business from the ground up. Had to learn a lot of new skills that I did not have before. I make more working for myself then I ever have for anyone else.

Still doesn't mean I'm not a grunt. I do all the grunt work in the business, I do all the tech work in the business.

and just because I am also trained to use a shovel and a mop, doesn't mean I know how to run a buffer or a back hoe.

and I have yet to meet any veteran who will say there military days were the best days of there life.

I'm amazed the CO knew how to operate the entire trailer / drive it. It's usually the E-5 that can do that kind of thing. Sounds to me like your buddy failed to step up and do the job that was needed.

well that would explain it cause he was only an E4

"The junior officers are often just shy of worthless when they first arrive in a unit. Their lot can be quite difficult until they can bring themselves up to speed. Please note -- I said bring themselves up to speed. If they don't do this or cannot do this, they will have a rather short career as an officer."

Having been there, the key is having outstanding senior NCOs (and in my case, a whole slew of cranky old ordnance CW3s as well!) to point the LT in the right direction and keep him heading that way. The dumb LTs will fight the process. I was happy as a clam to have these guys--who seemed to know all there was to know, and that extended to my SGTs as well as my SFC and chief--show me the way.

Allen

My military time was the best time of my life. I got to do and see amazing things.

"I've heard all about showing up drunk for duty, the great wall of china made out of one weekends beer cans, the bed hopping, ect."

Well thank god they don't do that in college! Or in the busness world !

I have a son in the Air Force, family in the Navy and Army. My sons friends that went in all the different branchs. Most I felt were more mature then ones that went on to party at school. Most felt a sense of duty to their country, and knew what they were getting into.

just my 2 cents worth

Naptyme has obviously never spent a day in the military let alone as a "grunt", because it is quite obvious he knows nothing of what he is talking about. I can speak only to my personal experience, so here it is. I was not particularly great in school, bored ADD call it what you want but it did nothing for me. I did not want to attend college, even though I did later in life. At 17 I enlisted in the Army. I tested high enough to take any job that I could have wanted, bar none. I however chose to be an infantryman. Why you may ask? Well I was there to serve my country, and the best way I felt to do that was on the line. Though I was never called upon to be fired on or fire in anger. I am proud of that service would not trade it for anything in the world. Not once have I regretted doing it. In fact I have on many occasions regretted leaving it. Sure we drank, fought, passed out, etc, but we were always friends in the end. Not sure how much beer I consumed but it was to blow off steam. But then again you would not understand because you have never been there.

my 2 cents…

Getting back on track, it appears to be directly stating what General Order 1A already said: No whoopie in the combat zone, full stop.

Of course, as a grunt, I'm too stupid to be sure.

Still doesn't mean I'm not a grunt.

If you are/were not 11 series (Army) or 03 series (Marines) …

You're not a grunt.

No never spent a day in the military. I was smart enough to know me and the military would mix like nitro and glicerine. I stopped taking orders when I was 10 years old.

In school they tried that "its my way or the highway" stuff and I come from a long line of highway people. If you ask you may get it, if you order your gonna have to do it yourself.

So I saved myself and military a HUGE headache.

Thats not to say that if the 48 states were invaded that I would just crawl in a hole and hide. I'd sign up for the Iowa militia and do my part the same as any man would. The difference being it would be my choice to be shot at not someone else's…

@Jay you'd be dissagreeing with a lot of people here if you don't think I'm a grunt.

Oddly, I've never had a problem disagreeing with people on TMP. They (and you) are simply wrong on this count.

I applaud your work ethic and being able to have a successful business, that's great. Entrepreneurial spirit is one of the foundation blocks of our country. Doesn't mean you don't work hard, etc.

Just means that you're not a grunt.

As for your plainly ignorant remarks regarding us dumb grunts, I will merely point to your refusal to realize that the tales told by your prior service friends are at odds with the experiences related by TMP members on this thread. Rather than simply state something to the effect of "that doesn't jibe with what I've been told, maybe your experience was different than my friends'," and dropping it, you continually returned to contradict the direct observations of people who have have "been there, done that" with second-hand information from unknown sources.

I submit that on this particular topic, you don't know what the you're talking about.

napthyme,

I love how people like you stand on a soap box and belittle people "like many that have posted here" for serving there country with remarks like you've made.

You clearly decided the military wasn't for you but you feel qualified to comment berate and belittle the people that have sacrificed their lives to let you do that.

Ignorance is no excuse, but compounding ignorance by speaking as if you know what you are talking about is way over the top.

Do yourself a favor run your business and let those that have the will and ability to defend your country without your denigrating commentary.

Well, Saginaw, that option would also entail removal from active duty for some period of time, and requiring it WOULD end up in the Supreme Court.

Nope, probably not.
UCMJ would be broadly unconstitutional if applied the the general citizenry, but when you sign up for the service, you sign away a considerable portion of your civil rights. That's why they aren't called military rights, which are a whole other ball of wax.

The military needs to remember this is the US not Nazi Germany and people here have the final human right to say NO!!!

Sure. People who joined the service will tend to be court-martialled for it, though. Technically, I think they can still hang you, though it's been quite a while since they have.

Despite what legal contracts they signed cause most did not sign anything that said "yes I want to be shot at, blown up, or murdered by a fellow soldier…"

I suppose there are probably some people who think this. I have no sympathy for people that stupid, though. Maybe pity, but no sympathy.
-Kle.

This is unbelieveable. He has three close friends in the army (who sound like they were dolts) and now he's an expert? Gee, I have two close friends who are pediatricians – now I'm an expert and know everything about medical school and respiratory diseases. I have close friends who are lawyers, historians, senior VP of a very large bank, teachers and so on. Obviously, I now know everything there is to know about those areas in life and no bank VP, pediatrician, teacher is going to be able to tell me squat about their profession because I know everything about it.

The military needs to remember this is the US not Nazi Germany and people here have the final human right to say NO!!!

Wrong. You don't have the "right" to say no to any lawful order. Streitax made an excellent post on what, in the past, has constituted shirking duty. This is the same.

It's how the military machine works. You are subject to the code of military discipline and justice in any western VOLONTEER army as soon as you sign the dotted line contrary to your outrageous statements here.

After hearing you say you've never served your country, my mouth just dropped when I read this:

I'm a grunt and always have been from the day I was born.

you'd be dissagreeing with a lot of people here if you don't think I'm a grunt.

Obviously you are referring to some very ignorant people. You haven't worn a uniform. You are no grunt. Hint – I've worn a uniform as a tank officer – I would never have the disrespect you have shown here to call myself a grunt.

Your statements are as offensive as a Walter Mitty type who claims all kinds of military service but who has never worn a uniform. You have spit in my face, other members of TMP currently and past serving, my former platoon members who have gone on and died in service of their country, and indeed any person from your own country who has done the same.

While it would seem obvious that someone behaving as you have here has some serious issues, it does not excuse your despicable, disrespectful and disgraceful behaviour.

‌ ‌‌
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Tim

Having been in for over 20 years from everything from infantry to laundry/bath Ican tell you that soldiers are soldiers. Patriotism is the biggest reason they join quickly followed by needing a job. Of course getting paid for your patriotism isn't a bad thing though. However I feel that todays soldiers are pulling more combat duty then the vietnam era soldier being forced to do 2-4 years in a combat zone bbut they are making tons more cash that any soldier in history. I see guys volunteer to do these tour for the tax free bucks they get and all the extra pay bonuses the get as well as the incentives for enlisting/reenlisting. Can't blame anyone but to me it seems more an army of mercenaries more than anything else sometimes. But as long as Uncle Sam is passing out the bucks might as well grab it. You can't make a living in the US with a degree in Inantryman skills when your done.

Oh and as far a pregnancy in a combat zone. Two people alone far from home, scared, bored,looking for companionship, the Spartans did it too but you can't get another guy pregnant that way.

The policy's been withdrawn.

Allen

When I was in the 1st Armored Division and it deployed to Bosnia, there were a bunch of females who were chaptered out of the Army because they would get pregnant over there and then be sent back and then have abortions.