"Guy Fawkes Day Question" Topic

I hope this doesn't get me DHed, so feel free to axe this post if it's too far off into Blue Fez territory.

In a historical sense, is Guy Fawkes Day a celebration of the persecution of Catholics? It's based on the Catholic plot to blow up the Protestant Parliament. & part of the celebration at use to include burning Fawkes in effigy. I know over time, traditions can lose their historical significance, but it seems like a pretty divisive celebration. Is that how it's still viewed in England? Or was it only ever about the specific people involved & not Catholics in general?

Bless you colonials. You seem to think we still live in Merrie Olde Englande

It's an excuse to build bonfires, let off fireworks, eat and drink (and before the wholesale import of 'trick or treat', kids begging in the street with a Guy). I suspect beyond the usual 'Guy Fawkes tried to blow up Parliament' stuff, most people don't know much about the event itself.

It's not as popular in Northern Ireland, but those guys know how to hold a grudge

I'd always wondered about that holiday… if Guy Fawkes Day was reviling the fellow as a villain or celebrating his attempt to take down 'the man'.
From a U.S. perspective it's easy to imagine certain folks celebrating someone who attempted to bomb Congress.

Fawkes is burned in effigy, so it's definitely celebrating the failure rather than the man….

Thanks Connard, without the cultural context, I wasn't sure how it was viewed.

The cafeteria at the major US corporation that I work at celebrated Guy Fawkes Day by having "traditional" English lunches like Fish & Chips, Shepards Pie & Ploughman's Lunch.

I was surprised that giving the ultra Politically Correct stance that most US corporations have taken, the cafeteria staff decided to choose this holiday to celebrate.

It's another remnant of the old Samhain festival, the Celtic New Year, made acceptable to the populous

Short Lecture on Farming Practices (!):

On October 26th, the grass stops growing. In the following week, there comes the slaughter or sale of any livestock which you can't feed over Winter. It's the end of the farming year.

There is a massive clear-out of barns and byres and yards as the remaining animals and their food supply are brought in, which in turn creates a huge pile of rubbish (including the bones and unuseable bits of the recently slaughtered livestock).

On what is now, roughly, November 5th, the new farming year begins and all this rubbish makes a splendid bonfire, which is accompanied by the usual eating, drinking and shenanigans.

A cherished traditional part of this celebration has always been the burning in effigy of the person who is giving you most grief … the landlord, the local Customs officer, even, on occasion, the King. The Powers That Be really disliked this habit and grabbed the Heaven-sent opportunity that Guy Fawkes provided to replace these local effigies with a standard, generic "guy" (this did not prevent all manner of people being "effigied" at various times, including Napoleon Buonaparte, and, in recent years, several Members of Parliament).

Let's hear it for thos shenanigans (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).

crazy thing is -as a shooter- I have to have a 'Health and safety executive' ticket to keep black powder and yet anyone can wander in to a corner shop and buy the same thing in fireworks

Fawkes is burned in effigy, so it's definitely celebrating the failure rather than the man….

Well, given how some icons are emblemized by the device they were tortured and/or died on… it's not always clear that the manner of the celebration might not belie the attitude of the celebrant towards the celebrated.

It most certainly originated as a celebration of his failure, and was James' version of the Falklands War – he had been horribly unpopular, his salvation made him popular.

The Plotters had planned to follow up the blast with a mass ethnic cleansing of Scots and of Prominent Protestants. Religious Hatred was alive and well in those days.

Modern England is a secular society to a degree most Americans I have met are stunned by at first exposure, and so the celebration has zero religious meaning any more. Just a chance to make stuff go 'Bang.'

But I still recall my dear old mum buying us all a cake every time a pope died. The old ways survived in some parts of the UK.

YouTube link

"most people don't know much about the event itself. "

Hmm. There are still some people who make very sure they have an effigy of the Pope on the bonfire. The religious wars are still alive and well in some parts of the UK.

For most people though, it is just an excuse to have a few drinks, a bonfire and let off some fireworks. More of a pagan thing, celebrating the transition from autumn to winter.

Sometimes effigies of 'celebrities' get put on the fire these days, but to answer the OP, it was a originally to celebrate the failure of the plot and a finger in the eye to the tyranny of the Bishop of Rome.

"Modern England is a secular society to a degree most Americans I have met are stunned by at first exposure,"

Indeed.

It gets even more complicated because the celebration of Guy Fawkes' failure was celebrated for a fairly short time and was in essence similar to revels held to celebrate the failure of assassination attempts on Elizabeth I the previous century.

But, after the Restoration anti-catholic feeling was stirred up again – including the revival of the 5th November celebrations – as an attempt to put pressure on the government and to ensure that the Duke of York would be kept from the succession (being a catholic). Once the bill was in place protecting the succession they thought, even desired that it would fade away again. But, wouldn't you know it, the public now had a taste for starting fires, making bangs and ringing bells at inappropriate times, so they carried on doing it despite the wishes of their "betters".

It's not as popular in Northern Ireland, but those guys know how to hold a grudge

Yep. There's a special date for bonfires and grudges up there. Oh, and marching. Let's not forget the marching.

To (mis)quote Sellars and Yateman every one can remember the date but not the year.

If you want to upset an Orangeman then tell him whose side the Pope was on at the Battle of the Boyne.