"Do you use "whom" in conversation or writing?" Topic

I happen to think that casual conversation and written communication are two subtly difernt languages, but don't hold me to that.

Anyway, to quote Calvin Trillin, "As far as I'm concerned, 'whom' is a word that was invented to make everyone sound like a butler."

link

The ironic thing is that people who try to sound educated use "whom" all the time, correctly or not, and just sound dumber than they would if they used "who" all the time.
In my humble opinion. "Whom" is on its last legs, and will soon join the dustbin of the English language, along with thee and thou.

Some times. It all depends on whom I'm talking to.

Wyatt

I try to only use it when it owuld be correct. Since I'm not actually sure when it would be correct, I find myself not using it very much at all.

I would feel silly writing "To who are you referring?"

I write, "To whom are you referring?"

Trillin is a famous conforming non-conformist.

It's simply a matter of habit. If you're used to using it correctly, it falls into place naturally, and as Steve says, it looks (and sounds) wrong if you use the alternative. If you're not used to using it (or aren't sure of the rules), then it doesn't seem natural, and it falls by the wayside.

Once, gimlet-eyed little old ladies with their hair in buns and rulers in their hands kept civilization alive. But nowadays, the lights are flickering, and darkness looms.

Who uses "will" and "shall" correctly anymore?

Allen

Sometimes when making a point or trying to turn a peculiar phrase.

BTW, while there are technical rules (object vs. subject yada yada yada) for its use, the simple rule is to use 'whom' when you'd use 'him' rather then 'he'.

"You are refering to him?" becomes "You are refer to whom?" or flip it around for "To whom are you refering." You wouldn't say, even if double dog dared, "You are refering to he?"

The reverse is true, "He is going to the store" rather then "Him is going to the store" so you'd use "Who is going to the store."

Before 'whom' gets the death sentence, I say the English language needs to plural you. I vote for "y'all". So give me "y'all" and I'll give you 'whom'.

I tend to use it more in writing than in conversation.

Once, gimlet-eyed little old ladies with their hair in buns and rulers in their hands kept civilization alive. But nowadays, the lights are flickering, and darkness looms.

We would love to use the rulers again, but now it's called child abuse, not education.

Oh, and John, I do use 'who' and 'whom' in the classroom in a feeble effort to support the English teachers who know and teach it to the kids. Sadly, about 2/3 of our English department barely have a grasp of English themselves.

"We would love to use the rulers again, but now it's called child abuse, not education."

Time to use language in a positive way, then. Don't call it a rap on the knuckles, call it a synaptic concentration-reinforcement exercise.

Allen

synaptic concentration-reinforcement exercise

…sc-re isn't a very good acronym, I don't believe it'll work without a good acronym.

D~

How about RAP-Reinforcing Attention Properly!

I explain it all the time to my students preparing for the ACT. A few questions test the correct usage.

Who is a subject pronoun; Whom is an object pronoun.

But to simplify it I just provide an example.

The quarterback threw the ball to the wide receiver.

I could say as a question: Who threw the ball to whom? and the previous statement is the answer. And now the student remembers the action doer is who and the action receiver is whom.

I use it. I also try not to end sentences with prepositions, in writing and speaking.

Working in a sawmill didn't do much to help with that effort. Luckily, I've been out of there for 2 1/2 years.

"Yes", he says with his pinky finger up while typing.

You and André Benjamin (Dabu in "Be Cool"). I don't know how I got stuck watching that until half past midnigt last night. It's a dreadful sequel. But watching Dabu and Brian (Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson) is mildly amusing. Cedric the Entertainer's reaction to Dabu drinking tea with his pinky raised gets a chuckle: "That's not gangsta!"

Allen

Before 'whom' gets the death sentence, I say the English language needs to plural you. I vote for "y'all". So give me "y'all" and I'll give you 'whom'.

Actually, "y'all" is singular (especially in Texas); the recognized plural is "all y'all".

I use it. I also try not to end sentences with prepositions, in writing and speaking.

I went to to college atTrinity University, in San Antonio. I remember on my first day of class, running around with my schedule in my hand, trying to find the different buildings and classrooms. It was in the English Department's building (I forget the name) where I found myself totally lost. So, I asked one of the professors, "Can you tell me where the biology building is at?"

He looked down his nose at me and said, very slowly, "Young man, this is Trinity University. Around here, we do not end our sentences with prepositions. Would you care to try your question again?"

I thought for a moment, looked back up at him, and asked, "Can you tell me where the biology building is at, hole?"

"…is at" is very traditional Texan: e.g. "Where are all y'all at?". As is "How all y'all are?" And "Ah'm in the awl bidness."

Allen

Yes, but not always. There are a variety of words I use and whom is just one of them.

jizbrand – did you get the answer? lol

Dudes !!!

Other than issues involving bells tolling, I use 'whom' in writing far more often than conversation.

My own personal bugaboo, far in excess of ending sentences with prepositions (which does bug me), is the use of 'like I said' instead of 'as I said'. I don't know why but 'like I said' simply clangs off my ears in a painful fashion.

Before 'whom' gets the death sentence, I say the English language needs to plural you.

There is a plural "you." It's "you."

Absolutely.

Once upon a time the Board of Education wesd shaped like a cricket bat.
Obviously nothing was taught in such a fearful environment except that violence is a necessary evil.
That must be why we have such a peace loving urban core in our cities these days.

Yes. Because I know how to (and especially for emphasis).

I say the English language needs to plural you.

No, it's "youse" – as in, "Youse guys over there, get off your butts and help me carry this couch."

"Who uses "will" and "shall" correctly anymore?"

Here's another one – who uses "may" and "might" as originally used? (I.e., "may" = you're allowed to do something, … "you may go swimming", "might", it's a possibility …"you might drown".)

Not that I'm particularly stuffy about how others speak, so long as the meaning's clear and it's not completely off-beam. As nice Mr. Bryson says in Mother Tongue, it IS a living language!

I'm excused, I'm a ferner …

The "Not The Nine O'clock News" team produced a very funny sketch about the use of "whom" which, unfortunately I have completely failed to find on you Tube, However, I did find this:

YouTube link

Pete

[q]Actually, "y'all" is singular (especially in Texas); the recognized plural is "all y'all".[/q]

Technically speaking, "Y'all" is for a focused group of people, and "All y'all" is for everyone in ear shot. As in, "What do y'all

Though "who/whom" seems to be dying out, the grammar I miss the most is the correct usage of "I/Me".

Which I guess hits on the crux of the problem – people have no idea how to differentiate between subject and object in a sentence. I know I was taught grammar and sentence diagramming in school but I also remember that nobody else in my class seemed to be understanding the mathematical approach to language. Maybe rote memorization is the only way to learn for some people after all?

I try, but I often fail. And avoiding prepositions at the end of a sentences is a sometimes trying exercise. But I perservere (sp?) for the sake of my grade school teachers. I just know they will rise from the grave and haunt me if I do not.

"all y'all"

As a native Texan of 35 years, I don't believe I've ever heard this. But I like the 'focused group' explanation; our language is defintely missing something here.

If you don't think the English language is missing anything, play a game at a con. "Did you plot your move?" Am I talking to a player or the table? "Are you ready for the next turn?" "Did you record your damage?" So on and so on. You can listen to a whole conversation and not realize that you too are supposed to be plotting your move and recording damage.

And ending a sentence in a preposition is BULL. There is no logical reason the preposition is bad. The worst offense is that it's often redundent ("where is the library vs. where is the library at"). But it no way obfuscates the point or confounds the listener (like the double negative "I don't have no money"). It's a rule invented by the little old ladies who get enjoyment out of rapping knuckles.

Forsooth, I doth not, in general discourse. It seemeth antiquated to a degree.

My wife says "Y'all," because she's a Georgian. She does not say "All y'all", because she finished middle school.

Ah, a graduate education then :o)

I use whom, and sound positively antiquated when I do. My students often ask me why I 'talk funny.'
In New Zealand a new generation is well on the way to using youse as a plural for you. Of course, given our excess of sheep, they may just be talking to the females of that species…
Speaking of annoyances, how about using 'neither' with 'or' instead of with 'nor'. That gets up my snooty nose. Or incorrectly pronouncing forehead. 'Four – heads?' Who has four heads?

Yes, but not all the time.

Yes, sometimes.

synaptic concentration-reinforcement exercise

…sc-re isn't a very good acronym, I don't believe it'll work without a good acronym.

Here you go – Synaptic Concentration-Reinforcement Exercise, Administered Manually.
-Kle.

Klebert, you beat me to it !

Yes, 'whom' is part of my vocabulary, and generally used.

But if pet mis-use peeves are up for discussion, my
most loathed is the use of 'infer' for 'imply'.

English is rapidly creating new words with no useful distinction from serviceable good existing words while even more quickly blurring the distinction between words that serve very different purposes.

Soon we'll have a billion words that all mean everything.