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"Looking for a book on the State, Power, Force & Vigilantiism" Topic


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Alxbates05 Aug 2009 8:58 p.m. PST

I've had a few things rattling around in my head lately:

* – My desire to join the Police Department, and my failure to pass the physical (because of a recently broken hand during the aftermath of a bar shooting), as well as numerous conversations with some of the local cops that I'm friendly with.

* – Sitting in court for a week watching the legal process in action, listening to people LIE on the stand with a straight face, and occasionally being bored and letting my mind wander…

* – I've also got some apprehension about privacy issues, big government, Guantanamo Bay, and our future as a democratic society.

* – On a more nerdy level, the recent 'Watchmen' movie (as well as a near-lifelong comic book reading habit).

* – I also work with two ladies whose day jobs are with childrens social services, dealing with abused, molested and neglected kids. Both of them have mentioned that someday they're going to get so fed up with the system, that their only options will be to quit their jobs, or commit an act of violence against a molester.

So, those ingredients have sort of meshed together to create in me a desire to look for some books, but the local Barnes & Noble employees are completely unhelpful on this topic.

What I'd like to find is a book, or a couple of books, that discuss the philosophical and practical origins and justifications for the power that is invested by populations in States/Governments, and also what amount of that power is practically enforced on any level other than with force.

I'd also be curious to read anything that's been written trying to justify vigilanti-ism, defiance of the state, or enforcing "laws" that the state doesn't recognize as law (whether it's Shariah religious law, or whatever). Obviously Civil Disobedience and political protest has a long and honorable history in this country, but at what point is it justifiable to take that next step (that our founding fathers took!) and take up arms? Where does the line blur?

And of course there's the superhero-y aspect to vigilantism, too, heh…

So, any suggestions on where to start? Practial books written by relatively modern law enforcement officers would be just as interesting to me as ancient Greek philosophy.

Thanks in advance to the TMP hivemind!

-Alex

Jay Arnold06 Aug 2009 4:47 a.m. PST

"Discipline and Punish" by Michel Foucault may be along the lines of what you're after.

Jmrino06 Aug 2009 5:53 a.m. PST

A little old school, but good philosophical works on power of government issues. (At least in my opinion)

Jean-Jacque Rousseau – The Social Contract

Thomas Paine – Rights of Man

Thomas Jefferson – Notes on the State of Virginia

Personal logo Jlundberg Supporting Member of TMP06 Aug 2009 11:05 a.m. PST

If you are looking at the balance, wade through the Federalist papers about the balance between government bodies and freedom. Many will not address your points but it it a pretty good look at what some of the founders were looking at.

2bit elroy06 Aug 2009 12:04 p.m. PST

Alex, u r not going Charles Bronson are you??

doc mcb06 Aug 2009 12:16 p.m. PST

NO DUTY TO RETREAT. Forgotten the author, but a good discussion of this doctrine in America versus in England.

doc mcb06 Aug 2009 12:18 p.m. PST

Boorstin has a couple of good chapters on "natural law' and claim clubs and viglantees in mining camps, in THE AMERICANS, I think in vol. 3 THE DEMOCRATIC EXPERIENCE. Also on constitution writing on wagon trains, in vol. 2.

doc mcb06 Aug 2009 12:19 p.m. PST

Locke, "On Civil Government."

Austin Rob06 Aug 2009 2:09 p.m. PST

Hobbes' "Leviathan" on why government is necessary. (Even the most tyrannical govt. is better than no government at all.)

Then contrast with Locke's "Second Treatise (On Civil Government)" which delves into the social contract, individual liberty and limitations on government. Really the foundational theory of American government.

Alxbates06 Aug 2009 4:32 p.m. PST

Alex, u r not going Charles Bronson are you??

Oh, Lord no – I'm just interested in reading about the subject matter. One of the things I have difficulty with (for example, at work at the bar), is figuring out why people engage in such outrageous behavior. I don't engage in such behavior myself, so I'm often mystified by it.

There's a difference between understanding the the knee-jerk reaction of "That guy's a child molester – I hope he dies horribly", and then actually going out and killing the guy.

I've read Rousseau's 'Social Contract', but it's been years.

Thanks for the reccomends, folks. Any other, more modern authors?

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