"Harlan Ellison seems to be full of himself" Topic

I'm listening to Harlan Ellison on Studio 360…
What's with this guy?
I've enjoyed what I've read of his writing, but why does he insist he's not a science fiction writer? That he's never written science fiction?
He thinks he should be seen as being an heir to Poe and Borges…

I'd heard he was a bit of a gasbag… but I'd never directly observed it.
Why does the drive to inellectualism so often leave people at the rest stop of moronic?

You only just heard this?

I thought it was common knowledge

I'm sorry you had your illusions shattered.

I suspect that him being a GoH at Science -Fiction conventions blows his pretence out of the water.

Otherwise why did he accept

I didn't have any illusions… but I hadn't really been paying much attention to his non-fiction ramblings either…

It's along the same lines as when I found out what horrible people Picasso and Dali were… despite having enjoyed their paintings for years. (Ellison doesn't come close to matching their… tude).

Ellison's been a prima donna* for years. No real surprise.

*I use the term because the more common profane terms he seems to wear with a badge of honor. I don't think he'd like being called a "prima donna," so that makes it the most effective term.

He THINKS he is a big fish in a small pond. He is not even that.

I think you have to have a disconnect between what you enjoy of a humans creation and the human themselves. I can enjoy Rock and Roll part 2 at a ball game without considering that Gary Glitter is a pedophile. I can enjoy paintings, songs, and books by various people. I have no illusion that just because someone creates something cool, that must mean they are a great person. They are human and therefore fallible and likely to be disappointing.

Actually, I think a lot of 'great' artists are lousy people – I think that a certain arrogance tends to go with 'greatness'.

I try to ignore the personality of the artist as much as possible now, as it rarely adds to the enjoyment of their work.

It generally seems easier (and more enjoyable) to consume the creative work (song/book/film/etc) without knowing too much at all about the artist.

He always has been.

Did you expect him to become more humble with age?
-Kle.

He's actually been like that for *decades*, not years. I remember first hearing (reading) stories of his hubris back in the early '70s.

I love a lot of his writing, but I have a feeling I'd walk away if I ever actually met him.

I had the honour of showing him around my city 20 years ago when he was a GoH at a con.

His attitude that people will want money for even the most trivial of things put me right off him. No understanding of people being people . He also has a crap taste in art

I was once in a fist-fight with Harlan Ellison.

I was at a sci-fi convention whose name is best left unmentioned. I'd slipped into an after-hours author's party by presenting myself as Stephen R. Donaldson. The doorman eyed me with a mix of suspicion and contempt, but finally decided that no one, not even the most star-struck fan-boy, would sink so low as to pretend to be Donaldson. I admit that I did feel greasy for days afterward, but at the time the end seemed worth the means: I would have claimed to be John Norman if it meant I got to have a drink with Roger Zelazny.

Inside the Presidential Suite, I found myself surrounded by cigarette smoke and authors who were vaguely familiar from their plastic-faced back-cover photos. I worked my way through the crowd, followed by the occasional low whisper of "There goes Donaldson, the punk." Eventually I found myself out on the balcony with a few other guests who were gathered around a gentleman in a turtleneck and sport coat. I assumed he must be someone important, because his audience hung on his every word.

"Most people don't understand my stories," the Great Man said, swirling the ice in his high ball glass. "Of course that is hardly surprising, since they rarely catch the clever word play of my titles, the puns . . . "

"A man who would pun would pick pockets," I said to myself, perhaps a bit loudly.

The Great Man rounded on me, his face the color of sun-dried tomatoes (a comestible that had not yet gained popularity at the time of the events I describe, but it conveys my meaning so clearly that I beg you to forgive the anachronism). "What is that?! What did you say!?"

"I only meant to say that punning is the lowest form of humor. Most men who resort to them do so from a laziness of wit – or lack of it."

With that, he lunged at me and struck me soundly on the nose. I was stunned for a moment and nearly undone by the kicks of his sycophants. I was able to regain my feet by biting a portly man on the ankle so fiercely that he fell to the floor and I was able to drag myself up his bulk to a crouch and ultimately stand up squarely before my attacker, whose insult to my person I answered by hurling my heavy glass of whisky so that it struck him in his broad forehead with a resounding crack!

I don't remember much after that. The fight boiled into the Presidential Suite itself where the spirit of mayhem mixed well with the spirits which had already been consumed by the bored authors and their enervated fans. I eventually escaped by absconding with a mysteriously vacant wheel-chair. I applied myself vigorously to the wheels and shouted "Please! My bones! My poor brittle bones!" This formula worked a treat and I wheeled my way out the doors just as hotel security arrived.

"What's going on in there, sir?!"

"Someone just attacked Stephen R. Donaldson with a letter opener," I extemporized. "Be careful in there, officer! Donaldson is a leper and the crowd went mad with fear when he splashed blood on Ray Bradbury! They've torn him to pieces!"

I waited till they were inside the room to leap to my feet and fled down the service stairs. I thought I heard the faint thud of gunshots behind me.

The next day at breakfast one of my fellow con attendees sat next to me and asked if I'd heard what happened.

"No," I said, innocently sipping my Bloody Mary. "I was in a deep meditative state until coming down for breakfast, so I've heard no news at all. The staff acupuncturist here is quite good and my gout is almost completely under control this morning."

"Apparently Harlan Ellison was attached by someone disguised as Teddy Roosevelt!"

I frowned. "He was disguised as the young, fit Teddy Roosevelt, I presume?"

"Was Teddy Roosevelt ever fit?" My companion shoveled free pastries down his throat as he spoke, showering us both with crumbs. "I think he was always pretty rotund, don't you?"

"I think it's very rude to call an American President and war hero 'rotund' and I bid you good day, sir!"

The story above is probably a flight of fancy.

We should have a Poll: Who is a ruder son of a bitch, Harlan Elison or Jerry Pournelle?

I call Foul Ambush Alley Games – The Mighty Elison would never attend a Scifi convention. AN SF convention yes.

Shame, as otherwise your tale tallies exactly with MY recollection of events.

"Alms for a Leper" (Dong)

R Bradbury

I've never met Jerry Pournelle (I like his writing a LOT more than I like Elison's) but I have been subjected to Harlan Elison several times over the years at conventions and he ALWAYS gave me the impression that he was a pompous

At least we can credit him with consistancy.

Dave

I call Foul Ambush Alley Games – The Mighty Elison would never attend a Scifi convention. AN SF convention yes.

I call shenanigans. He will attend any convention willing to pay his booking fee ( I saw him at several here in Texas back in the 80's/90's, he's not THAT pompous apparently) Of course, he will spend his time putting down the attendees and railing against whatever bee happens to be in his bonnet that day. Mention Gene Roddenberry's name to him sometime and enjoy the fireworks

Dave

I would have claimed to be John Norman . . .

Now THAT would be seriously wrong. (And I actually read the first 21 or so Gor books as a callow youth.)

AN SF convention yes

Hehe I originally interpreted this to mean SF = San Francisco, but my comment stands even if SF = Science Fiction because I still think Elison's only requirement for attending any convention is that his booking fee is paid He would happily attend a SciFi convention then rail against the organizers for calling it that, assuming thats one of his many pet peeves.

Dave

It is. Although why a guy who claims to have never been a science fiction writer would care what anyone calls the genre is beyond me.

I will give the guy this, though: Ellison's eulogy for Isaac Asimov on the SF Channel (Ellison used to have his own 15minute or half hour rant show there) was one of the most moving I've ever seen.

For one of the oddest Harlan Ellison related stories ever, check this out: link

Regardless of it's fabrication I very much enjoyed that story of the 'fistfight' with Elison.

I will keep it in mind to stay clear of him if I ever spot him and his toadies in one of the buffet lines here.

For one of the oddest Harlan Ellison related stories ever, check this out: link

I was just starting out as a writer, and might have optioned one or two things for a few hundred bucks

Not a true story then?

I read the title of this thread and the first thing that jumped to my mind was: "That is one of the greatest understatements in human history."

I read the title of this thread and the first thing that jumped to my mind was: "That is one of the greatest understatements in human history."

*cackles* Remember the claymation cartoon Deathmatch? We need to have one between Harlan Ellison and Steve Jackson. No matter which one loses, we win

Dave

Wow. I've never met anyone famous, much less talked to any of them.

One writer I never wanted to meet (lucky so far) is Stephen King. I forget which of his turgid books it was that contained a passage in the author's intro that went something like this: "The conundrum of life lends to my writing the quality of a certain plangeant resonance…"

Oh puhleez! He was obviously either so stuffed with himself or having his publishers and readers on. Nobody who writes scifi and horror even knows what conundrum, plangeant (or maybe even resonance) mean; much less used in the same sentance. I have used those words since whenever I wish to inject an uncertain ironic quality into a ludicrous or otherwise unwanted situation. Thank you Stephen King: I haven't read anything of yours in over 15 years….

Mr King, as I've said before, harbours ambitions of writing the Great American Novel.

Unfortunately, he chose the wrong genre.

Mr King, as I've said before, harbours ambitions of writing the Great American Novel.

Unfortunately, he chose the wrong genre.

No, he is the wrong writer. What about Henry James' "The Turn of the Screw" or Poe's "The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket"? Still read today.

Ralph