 Editor in Chief Bill   | 22 May 2008 6:56 a.m. PST |
Ran into this phrase in an older book (1950's), and wondered about its origin. What's the significance of the belt? Are there unbelted nobles? |
 John the OFM  | 22 May 2008 6:58 a.m. PST |
I believe it referred to his sword belt, and thus his privilege to bear arms. |
| Wyatt the Odd | 22 May 2008 7:11 a.m. PST |
One of a knight's traditional symbols of his rank was a white belt. The color signified purity, while the belt itself, as John said, denoted his right to bear arms – even if that belt weren't the sword belt. The other traditional symbol was a largish chain to symbolize the bonds of fealty. Spurs as a symbol came later, but they are the one that lasted longest. Of course, your mileage may vary depending on the time and the culture. Wyatt |
| John the OFM | 22 May 2008 7:23 a.m. PST |
So, then a "belted noble" would be a REAL noble, and not some rich factory owner given a title by Gladstone or Disraeli. |
| Connard Sage | 22 May 2008 7:46 a.m. PST |
Allow me, I have the advantage of being British Only earls are belted, they were traditionally invested by the king with a sword which he belted around their waist The other ranks of the peerage presumably have to make do with braces – or suspenders as you colonial types so quaintly call them Mind you, a duke in suspenders and a french maid's outfit wouldn't surprise anyone who attended one of our better public schools |
| Knight Templar | 22 May 2008 8:16 a.m. PST |
No no no. It refers to a man only being recognized as "noble" after he let his mentor belt him on the jaw hard enough to knock him down. After the former neophyte was helped to his feet, he was revived with a stiff belt of ale, wine or mead. Only then did he get a sword belt. (I thought EVERYBODY knew that.) |
| zippyfusenet | 22 May 2008 8:40 a.m. PST |
"He had not well gone out of sight,
Nor was he passed Milstrethen,
When four and twenty belted knights
Came riding o'er the Leathen." "A Prince may make a belted knight,
A Marquess, Duke and a' that." 'Belted knight' is a catch-phrase, like 'merry maiden', 'high horse' or 'nut-brown bowl'. Suggests to me that ordinary knights were belted. |
| Connard Sage | 22 May 2008 8:48 a.m. PST |
'Belted knight' is a catch-phrase, like 'merry maiden', 'high horse' or 'nut-brown bowl'. Suggests to me that ordinary knights were belted. Quoting Steeleye Span lyrics does not strengthen your case. Contrary to what popular opinion may suppose on your side of the Atlantic, they were not medieval scholars I have given you the correct answer, you may consult the appropriate entry in the Encyclopaedia Britannica or possibly Burke's Peerage |
| The Tin Dictator | 22 May 2008 1:16 p.m. PST |
The idea that the correct answer should suffice is obviously overly optimistic. |
| John the OFM | 22 May 2008 1:24 p.m. PST |
Well, he IS British after all. That gives him +1 on the Credibility roll. Said so, himself. |
| Connard Sage | 22 May 2008 1:30 p.m. PST |
The idea that the correct answer should suffice is obviously overly optimistic. Or, more likely, Zippy has me stifled…
Look, I don't have all night. There's a bottle of Pomerol with my name on it here, is anyone else going to bite or not?
|
| zippyfusenet | 22 May 2008 2:26 p.m. PST |
Connard, I don't need the crutch of a stifle to ignore you. |
| average joe | 22 May 2008 6:19 p.m. PST |
I thought one said a noble was belted to distinguish them from bias-ply nobles. 
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| highlandcatfrog | 22 May 2008 10:44 p.m. PST |
Do we get to belt the nobles?!? |
