"Battle Cry conversion for 1870 FPW" Topic

Hi everyone;

I'm looking to play some Franco Prussian War scenarios with the classic Civil War game, Battle Cry.

The biggest difference (besides larger armies) would be weapons range.

In Battle Cry ACW, Infantry fires out to 4 hexes.

I'm thinking that the Prussians would be a bit farther, maybe five hexes and the French Chassepot Rifle would be 6 hexes.

In the ACW version, Artillery fires out to 5 hexes.

I'm thinking that French Artilery would be about the same at 5 hexes or maybe 6 hexes and German Arty would be either 6 or 7 hexes.

I know this game is pretty abstract, but does my thinking of ranges sound good to you.

Are there any other major differences, between ACW and FPW. that I should include.

Thanks
Joe

Artillery should definitely have longer range given the rifle ranges. As you have it now the French Chassepots can outrange their artillery, I highly doubt that was the case.
Just my two cents.

If I were going to do this (and I think it's a great idea, btw), I'd work within these range parameters:

Chassepot= 960 yds. Needlegun= 640 yds.

All carbines= 320 yds.

Mitrailleuse= 1200 yds

French 4lb shell= 1600 yds Prussian 6lb shell= 2160 yds

French 4lb case= 480 yds Prussian 6lb case= 400 yds

(These figures are from an old version of 'Chassepot & Needlegun' by Larry Brom. Your research may find some different figures.)

The next step is to determine the groundscale for the hexes. 250-300 yards might be a good place to start. The rest of it is just running some numbers and applying some fudge here and there. Let's use 300 yds for our groundscale:

Chassepot 960yds/300yds= 3.2(round down to 3 hexes)

Needlegun 640yds/300 yds= 2.13333 (round down to 2 hexes)

Carbines= 1 hex

Mitrailleuse= 4 hexes

French 4lb shell= 5 hexes

Prussian 6lb shell= 7 hexes

If these ranges look like they'd work, then give them a try and see if they give a good game. If not, then change the ground scale, etc.

Good luck!

Patrick

I'm thinking that the Prussians would be a bit farther, maybe five hexes and the French Chassepot Rifle would be 6 hexes.

Start with fewer otherwise won't be any reason to maneuver. Everyone will get blasted.

See PH lewis post.

In Battle Cry, there is no set ground scale, so I don't think you have to work with ranges longer than published (in fact, Memoir 44, the WW2 version of the Command & Colors system, has shorter ranges – 3 for infantry). So experiment and go with the ranges that give the best game.

Thanks for the input everyone;

I've also been looking at other rule sets for weapon range.

I first looked at "Ever Victorious Armies" by Chris Peers and I just pulled out C&N by Larry Brom.

My idea is to take my FPW stands that I am building for Voley and Bayonet and use them to play Battle Cry.
I'm using 10mm figures for this.
Each infantry stand is 3" x 3" and I am using about 20 figures on each stand.

I need a lot of stands for V&B and the scenario I want to play, so it will be a while before I have them all done.

Meanwhile I want to get the units in action in a kitchen table size space with very simple rules.
Battle Cry fits that need.

I like Patricks range ideas and they mesh with what Combatpainter wrote about having room to manuever and what mghFond pointed out that the Chassepot should not out range Artillery.

So, I'll try the ranges Patrick suggested and see how it plays out.
I didn't realize that Memoir 44 had shorter ranges for infantry.
Good point warwell;
Of course the units are probably larger than the ACW version, which is what I wanted to do with the FPW version.

Next step is to create the game board.

Do I buy something pre-printed or make one myself.

I was thinking of using the Memoir 44 boards (I see that they are sold separately) or get some terrain hexes or get some floor tile with a hex shape pattern.
I may be visiting Home Depot soon. lol

Thanks a lot guys;
Joe

My FPW version of Battle Cry used 1 for Needleguns, 2 for Chassepots, and 7 for Prussian rifled guns – eerily similar to the ranges mentioned above. Units were regiments/brigades depending how grandiose the battles were.

I kind of lost interest due to the lack of multi-player, but using some of the more dice driven activation systems in various BC variants (like Afiriboria) might lead me to give it a go a again.

"Do I buy something pre-printed or make one myself."

Why not buy some Kallistra hex terrain, though I don't know how easy it is to get in the US. 4" hexes.

Hi Martin;

I'll look into Kallistra.

Anything that helps me get into playing this sooner is always welcomed. :-)

Take care;
Joe

Ive been looking at doing the larger battles of the FPW using Baccus 6mm, I recently purchased a pre-printed hex terrain mat (with roads,rivers and such) from these :

terrainmat.com

The quality of the mat is excellent, and the hexes are printed in a subdued way so you can us ethe mat for 'conventional ' games.
By the way Joep will you be using the cards from the BattleCry set or designing your own (Im thinking that light troops such as Jagers would not be catered for by the simple BattleCry system.

Hi giblabman1;

I'll check out that terrain site.

The Kallistra stuff that Martin recommended looked great, but it's more than I want to spend right now.

I just printed off cards from a file on Boardgame Geek.

They will work well, but they all have ACW graphics on them and I was thinking of how I could get some FPW images on them intsead.

I do have jagers and chasseurs based for Volley and Bayonet and was also wondering how to work them into Battle Cry.

I think I might use them as Infantry units, maybe move 1 more hex than a regular infantry unit but being able to take less hits.

My plan is to have regular infantry units take maybe 6 hits before destroyed.
Then the skirmishers could take 2 hits.

This stuff is coming to me as I think it over.

My orginal plan was to play the game straight as Battle Cry, but with my 10mm FPW minis, on a Battle Cry style game board.

As usually happens, that simple idea has changed into adapting some rules, making a few others and using much more elaborate terrain.

It's the wargamer curse! lol

back to the drawing board.
Joe

BTW:
I do want to keep this game simplistic, as I have plenty of rule sets for this period that have a much higher level of complexity.

I'm not sure that the 2 hex/three hes differential is enough. From my reading about the war, I think there was a much more distinct vulnerability gap the Prussians had to deal with before their weapon became effective.

On BGG download the Advance Battle Cry Deluxe Edition rules. These are a far better version of the rules than come in the box.

We use them for the ACW tabletop battles.

I would probably make the Prussian rifle range 4 hexes and the French rifle range 6 hexes. Just a thought…

I agree with the weapon range differential in rifles.

At St. Privat, the German Guard regiments had to go to ground at 700 yards from the French firing line, due the amount of Chassepot fire coming at them.

Although once I give the chassepots longer range, then I would have to increase the artillery range too.

Which I can do, but I want to have manuever room, while keeping the battle field to something that can be played on a kitchen table. 3 ft x 4 ft size.

I'll still go with warwells suggestion and play around with the ranges to see what works.

I will download the Advanced rules from BGG.

Thanks everyone;
Joe