"IP and WW2 Photographs" Topic

How do you know if WW2 photographs are copyrighted or not, or must they all be public domain at this point? What about photos taken by photographers in other countries? For instance, German/Soviet propoganda photos? There is so much material available on the web--can I just harvest it wherever I want and use it in a set of rules or a scenario pack? What about when a publishing company like Schiffer comes out with a book containing "previously unpublished" WW2 photos? Do they have IP over them? I am in the USA so am interested in US IP law.

Thanks

AX

They are copyright. I know that British photographs with crown copyright will have missuse persude.

x42

OK copyright is fairly clear. If they are up on a website assume that the website has the copyright.

As to IP, the individuals are probably dead but you might want to contact the appropriate governments over their IP rights of their equipment (if you detect that I think IP is BS you are probably right. If you want call a spade a spade, not an agricultural digging tool).

There are no "IP rights" defined in legislation. Rather, IP (Intellectual Property) is a generic term used to refer to various legally defined rights of immaterial nature, most important of which are copyright, trademark and patent.

Griefbringer

Typically if a photograph was taken by an official US government employee as part of his official job there is no IP issue- it would all be public domain.

This means that an official US Army historian using government issued camera's taking pictures of a battle for historical purposes cannot copyright the pictures. However, a grunt taking pics of a battle using his own polaroid in an unofficial capacity owns the pics- not the US government.

The U.S. government theoretically cannot own intellectual property rights. However, other governments can and do.

However, all the photos that we (the British) robbed after the war are all Crown copyright! And you have to pay a fortune to use them.

Under US law, public domain for previously copyrighted material has basically ceased to exist.

Thanks to the Sonny Bono Copyright Extension Act passed in 1998, all existing copyrights were extended by twenty years. That was after Congress extended it by nineteen years in 1976.

To put it in perspective, in the twenty years following 1998, roughly one million patents will fall into public domain while zero copyrights will.

I use them all the time in books and magazines.

ALL US Govt sponsored shots are public domain. period. But many photos you see are not US Army ones, but private news photographers (such as Robert Capa)who retain the rights to their stuff. (and sometimes the news people took an official army photo and stuck their name on it…

The British and French are somewhat protective of theirs, even to the point of even claiming copyrights on photos given to them by the US Govt after the war.

German is a bit tougher- as technically the shots were the property of the Reich- which does not exsist. And broke into two countries and back again. The German archives charges very steep fees to use photos obtained from them,
but so far as I have heard from any fellow authors, no one has actually laid copyright claim to Nazi era govt photos that are obtained in other ways (private collections, other archoives, etc.) Similarly, there's some issues about Soviet photos as technically the Govt that created them no longer exsists, and while some Russian or Ukrainian archives may claim the copyright, it would very difficult to prove it.

But- you cannot use the photo of someone in a public domain photo for promotional or sales use. It happens, but they should not do it. The individual owns the rights to their own image when it comes to advertising or promotional use.

A major question is what about a privatly taken wartime photo- of which the original photographer is unknown, and probably can never be found. Such as photos I pick up at sales to illustrate some uniform or something. Well, there comes a time when you just have to do a good faith attempt to figure it out- someone would have to have really good evicence to show they actually owned the shot to contest it, and it is rare anyone would try.

But I once was joking with someone that as soldiers were prohibited to take photos, that therefore if someone claimed they owned the shot, then they were in violation of an army regulations and should be punbished- so that they could only have been taking it officially….

in short- unless you know where it comes from, you run the risk of a problem. Also if I track down a rare shot that no one else has, and use it in my work, that does not mean that people should feel free ot just grab it and use it.

Yes, it does bother me that I will spend days on end in the arhcives looking for photos, and then have someone just steal the image from me. It's bad form. Just ask!

Need to start a lobbying group to the WTO or someone.

All WW2 photos are now a minimum of sixty years old – that's long enough for the owners to make money off of them.

They now belong to all of us.

Imagine the books we might see…

Yes, it does bother me that I will spend days on end in the arhcives looking for photos, and then have someone just steal the image from me. It's bad form. Just ask!

hear hear

"All WW2 photos are now a minimum of sixty years old – that's long enough for the owners to make money off of them.

They now belong to all of us."

No they don't. If they are private pics rather than US government ones (as observed above) then the copyright belongs to the guy who took them. Until 70 years after his death.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant to say "they should belong to all of us".

I might be in the minority here but I think 60 years of control is long enough.

I am a Combat Cameraman and work close with PA at times. If the Photos or Vides I do are released they are public domain free for people to use.

Most places that you can get WWII photos from on line will post the info about the photo if is public domain or copy written. Good place to start is the National Archives. Or you can contact your local Military Public Affairs Office and find other avenues to get the images you want.

Not trying to hyjack the thread here but if the US Army can't hold Copyright, what about the images(line drawing, technical specs) presented in Technical Manuals(although Unclassified, they are official use only…). Who would own the copyright to them or do they fall into public domain as well?

They'd be classified or protected as a state secret but not protected under copyright. However, the government has other ways to prevent people from using intellectual property rights. For example, by legislation people cannot trademark or use military insignia or the American Red Cross, etc.

jgawne: "The individual owns the rights to their own image when it comes to advertising or promotional use."

I would not use the term "own" here because it is not really a property you can sell or give away.

Rather, the individual has the right to decide on the usage of their image – but this is a case of privacy and not intellectual property.

Griefbringer

I would not use the term "own" here because it is not really a property you can sell or give away.

Models seem to do so effectively.

I get reminded roughly annually by the MoD that all photos taken by British MoD personnel (service or civilian) of British military subjects are automatically Crown Copyright, even when using a private camera!

This is absolutely genuine.

Needless to say, it'll be a cold day in hell before I pay to publish photos of my own cadets.

Models seem to do so effectively.

Not quite: they do not really lose ownership of anything (nor do they become slaves).

They might enter into contracts not to do posing jobs anybody else than a certain employer, but that is a different thing.

Risto