"A Real Challenge: Foreign Copyright 50 Year Old Book Riddle" Topic

I am in a position to return to print an invaluable historical source book, but am not sure how to proceed concerning the coypright questions.

I appreciate up front that I probably cannot get a definitive answer here, and I'm sure I will be advised by some to contact a "Copyright Lawyer." When that is your advice, can you also--please--provide me with some direct way(s) to do so? Time is a factor here, and if there is actually a way to communicate with such a font of knowledge for a cheap to free first hour, I would certainly try to do so.

Meanwhile, here's the skinny: The book was self published in Mexico in 1958 by the three authors, all of whom are now deceased. The only provided address was someone's home in Mexico City which, for all I know, no longer stands given the earthquakes of the last five decades. There is no ISBN Number (it was published before that time), and I have no obvious way of establishing if there are any heirs to the copyright--if it would have been their's by the existing copyright laws of the time and place.

How's that for a can of worms?

If there are no surviving heirs with copyright--or they cannot be found--can I re-publish this work (with full accredtitation to the original authors and their copyright as of 1958 in Mexico) with only a minimal chance of being found mysteriously gored to death by a bull in my own basement?

The work was never reprinted, is extremely rare, and a profoundly basic primary source. Its being almost impossible to find is a travesty to historians and gamers alike.

Understand, if I could contact someone who actually holds the copyright, I would offer to publish it for him and pay a significant royalty. Demonstrably, any copyright heirs are seeing absolutely nothing from their forebear's work as it stands.

Okay, any takers on how I might resolve all this, but without having to pimp my wife to pay for it?

TVAG

P.S. If one of you geniuses (no sarcasm intended) shows me how to solve this one, he gets a free copy of the work in question!

In the UK, copyright normally lasts for 70 years after the death of the author. As such, I assume that the heirs to the authors still hold copyright.

Not being a lawyer my inclination would be to create a sperate corporation to do the publishing and set a portion of any profits aside in a trust of some sort for several years in case someone comes asking.

Cory beat me to it – that's what I was going to suggest. It might not be legal but it would at least cover your back if someone did sue.

Trouble may be that setting up and administering the trust may cost more than you can afford to put into it.

A simple limited liability company could also be the answer. Then, if challenged you have the assets etc tied up in the company rather than risking your own cash. Basically, you need legal advice. If there aren't any surviving heirs, chances are that no one would challenge the copyright anyway.

It appears that it will still be in copyright for a long tim, unfortunately: link
Of course there's no mention of when the preceding "life + 75 years" came into force but a quick search elsewhere indicates 1956 as probable: natlaw.com/pubs/spmxip12.htm
Given that I'd say it's almost certainly still in copyright for a few decades yet.

Dom :-(

Dear All,

Thank you for so many good answers so quickly!

While I feel sure there are others out there who may yet be able to throw some light on this issue, and I hope they will still post their two-cents worth here, I think I'm beginning to see the drift here.

I have been offered off post for a possible means of at least seeing if any heirs still reside at the address provided in Mexico City. Naturally, I'll have to pursue this, but the time spread doesn't seem favorable.

If I can't actually find (for practical effort) any possible copyright holders, then perhaps the separate Corporation and Trust might be safest way to go.

If I should try this route, I will absolutely need some legal advice, but I believe this is not outside the practical realm. Depending on actual filing fees, etc, the whole issue may become moot, but the book itself, due to its' decidedly esoteric nature, will never be a big seller, and even at the 25% royalty per copy sold, the money in trust would probably never reach even four figures, unless there were years of interest to accrue!

Is there anything like a statute of limitations on a coypright not actively maintained or defended? Can a work be considered "abandoned?"

More grist for your mills, Gentlemen!

TVAG

It may be worth pointing out that a lot of people advertise things as being 'out of copyright' that have not passed the 70 year rule – search ebay in the pulps sections. Also check out things like the (?) Gutenburgh Project. It is possible that copyright has to be defended after the death of an author, I can vaguely recall reading somewhere about how 'the descendents of…. – can't remember who' must regret not retaining copyright….

Again, though, it is something best left to a lawyer who deals in copyright issues.

I take it that you've already tried to track down relatives, either by the net or by letters in Mexican papers? Failing the discovery of anyone able to give permission, and providing a lawyer can be found to ok any paperwork, you could put a note in the front of the reprint about your failed searches, and possibly put aside a certain amount of the profits to offer to any subsequent claimants. I think that providing you make "every effort" to find someone and fail, then you can cover yourself that way, but definitely check the legal position before printing.

Dear Joppyuk,

Yes, I'm thinking I might try something like you've described, specifically, putting the royalties I would have paid anyway into an interest bearing account for, say, a year or two, or until contacted (if ever) by someone who can claim the copyright.

Understand also, please, that as my current intentions are only to offer the book via my business, and to only such wargamers/history buffs who would want it, the amount of money involved is trifling. I would spend much more than the total potential profit just posting adds in Mexican papers (as if I knew how!). Any significant legal expenses would only compound the loss.

However, clearly stating up front in any such reprint that any legitimate (and provable) prior claim to copyright would be honored, might be the best I can do.

I've gotten some advice and ideas from others who posted to me off-thread that are encouraging. There may even be something to the idea of an "abandoned" copyright.

In any event if there is a way to bring this work back without my good deed being punished, I should very much like to do so.

Actually, it seems ironic that with no direct way to establish who has copyrights now (if anyone), the laws meant to protect the authors' work actually prevent it from being republished to the (minorly) financial benefit of the heirs who see nothing at all now, and who evidently have no interest in republishing themselves.

Please folks, keep the ideas coming!

TVAG

Under UK law, although copyright is a form of intellectual
property and, like physical property, and can be bought and sold, inherited or otherwise transferred, it is also true that copyright in a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work (including a photograph) lasts until 70 years after the death of the author. Since the book in question was only published in 1958 (49 years ago) then none of the authors have been dead 70 years yet, so the copyright in the work is still held by their beneficiaries. I imagine US law is similar.

Dear Mike,

Points well taken, though I don't know if the most recent changes in copyright law--on either side of The Pond--were truly retroactive to years before the new practices were formalized.

This is just one of the things I will need to learn.

TVAG

If this was published in 1958, where was it published?

If it was published in the USA, the answer to this question matters greatly:
How was it copyrighted?

The date is important as life of author +70 years only applies to works created from 1978 onwards…I think…without going back an looking it up…I'm not a lawyer…Did a lot of copyright research as an entertainment copyright analyst about 20 years ago. So some rules and laws may have changed since then.

Also, was the copyright renewed?

Works before 1978 (that hit the renewal date from their publication) required that they be renewed. Otherwise, it's in the PD. Again, there may have been changes to the laws/rules that retroactively protect them now. I'm throwing all this out there in case someone wants to post corrections clarifications.

Note that I'm not giving any advice. I'm simply posting what I know and asking some questions.

You MAY want to do a search on all the used book sites you can find*, just to see if it has been reprinted since it was first published.
This might give you an idea if it has bee actively copyright updated.

*abebooks, bookfinder, amazon.com, etc.

Dear William and OFM,

Now, there are a couple of encouraging posts!

Again, the book was published in Mexico City in 1958, and I should think that only a Copyright Scholar would know what the rules were in that country at that time.

Yes, the apparenly international legal standards since established may have been to some extent made retroactive, but if a Copyright must be renewed, or at least a subsequent edition printed, confirming that right, it should be pretty easy to establish if this has happened.

In fact, this may the "loophole" that I might explore if (as I strongly suspect) there is no sign of a subsequent edition in the last 50 years.

Mind, it still seems prudent to keep sales records and put the royalties into an interest bearing account for possible surrender to any legitimate copyright holder who might appear.

John, I'll get on the search strings today and I'll post here any results of interest.

To the rest of you following this thread, please do add whatever you know to the questions raised by Mr. White. To what extent the Copyright laws post 1978 were universally retroactive, is a crucial point to nail down.

If any of you who are not already well versed in such questions know someone who is, please bring this up at lunch or in an E-mail and see what you can add.

TVAG

Dear John,

Amazon has the name of the work, but none for sale and doesn't expect any.

Abebooks has one copy (surpisingly affordable!), but sign yet of any "second edition" or even printing.

Maybe it's been abandoned after all…

Please folks, if you've been following this thread and may have something helpful to add, please follow this when it falls off the front page later today.

Thanks again, everyone!

TVAG

Not that I'm recommending anything, just posting information:

As it relates to USA copyright registrations (which sometimes but not always includes various publications of works) one is able to search the Copyright Office records:

copyright.gov

I'm not sure if the catalog pre-1978 is completely available online. Anyone searching it will need to read carefully as to what it does and does not cover.

Also, if you look carefully, there is a link to copyright law on that page too.

When searching for books I like to check:

books.google.com
bookfinder.com

Dear William,

Well done, Sir!

I will pursue the copyright.gov site and see what luck I have. I'll also use the other links to see if there is any sign (which I doubt) that the work in question was ever reprinted, and thus confirming the original copyright.

I'll come back here and post if I find anything useful.

TVAG

I would also sugest contacting the Library of Congress

Is the book in question here Hefter, Brown & Nieto, The Mexican Soldier 1837-47… I was intrigued by this discussion, and noted the post above saying that one or two copies of this book were available on abebooks at reasonable prices. I found two on sale, both, strangely, in Italy. I have been looking for it for years, so have purchased one…

As far as copyright goes, the listing in the Bibliography of Rene Chartrand's Osprey on Santa Anna's Mexican Army indicates that Anne Brown, one of the authors, is the same Anne Brown as the famous military historian and collector Anne S K Brown. If this is the case, the copyright may belong to the Anne S K Brown estate, they have a museum and archive etc. at Brown university (I think), in Providence.

Perhaps contacting them might be useful?