"Replacement Windows ????" Topic

We are in the looking to buy replacement windows for our house. The current windows are original-1939. We have a less than 20 windows. We have lots of nice woodwork in the downstairs, including 3 sets of "piano windows" (I have also had them referred to as "prairie windows")

has anybody else out there gone through pricing these lately? So far we have gotten three bids, with one more cominig tonight. Two bids are very close (more than $20,000) and the third is almost 1/2 of the other 2.

As near as I can figure, this is like buying a used car. There's a price, then there are discounts, some pressure is applied by the salesman, more discounts are offered, etc etc

Anybody else out there have any experiences with buying replacement windows that they would care to share?

Thanks in advance

I never heard the terms piano window or prairie window. Are they stained glass windows, or just oddly shaped?

As for the estimates, $1,000 USD per window, including labor, sounds pretty steep to me, even for a very nice, wood-framed, multi-pane, double-glass, insulated window. I'm in NC, though, and prices might be lower here. If you live in a large city, the West Coast, or the Northeast, prices and labor are probably higher.

I almost never tak the lowest bid on construction projects. Since two of the bids were in the $20,000 range and the other was almost half that, the last guy might be low-balling you. Ask for references for all of the contractors, and see if the other homeowners are happy with their work. Drive by their homes and check out the work first-hand. You can also ask around at your local Lowe's, Home Depot, Ace hardware, and so on, and see if they have heard of these guys, and if they have any opinion one way or the other.

Since your house dates from 1939, and I assume you want it to last another 80 years or so (whether you're the occupant or not), don't scrimp on quality, specially with something as critical as windows. Pick a reputable contractor, and good-quality windows, and you'll never regret it. Pick a cheap contractor and shoddy windows, and I guarantee you'll regret it.

Good luck!

You are right, there are always deals, discounts etc on replacement windows. It helps if the seller can recommend other places that have had their windows (esp for sometime, so that you can see the wear & tear). A good company shouldn't try and press you for a decision there and then.
I have an apartment and in the end I went for the most expensive option – the windows seemed very good quality, & they were sold by a national company (no cowboy company that would disappear).
My expense seemed to pay off, as for when Buncefield Oil Terminal blew up in December 2005, my apartment windows survived, while all of the apartments on either side, above & below me had their glass blown in. Then again I could have just been lucky. Cheapest isn't always best, and can prove to be more expensive in the long run.

I suspect that the low-ball price isn't for the same kind of windows – Low-E, nitrogen between the double panes, etc. Even the quality of vinyl can differ. I didn't go with a national brand on my replacement windows (7 windows roughly $3K) but I'm happy with them. 20 windows on a vintage house is a huge investment – consider going with one of the national brands so you have a lifetime warranty that will actually mean something. Also consider going with the company that can closest match the style of the extant windows (assuming that you want to keep that style). The windows we got required a slight change in the character of our house – and, in our case, it was for the better.

One other thing to consider is whether you actually need all the Low-E, insulating folderoll. Those factors DO make a difference if the rest of the house is otherwise well insulated, but if its not then insulated windows won't help that much.

Wyatt

$1,000 for everything including interior trim out per window is the rough rule of thumb current in the US multi family construction.

Large windows or conditions such as older construction that may complicate installation drive this up quickly.

So without knowing where you are it doesn't sound unrealistic, just be sure to shop around and choose a reputable installer. You might even consider having them do just a few windows to start to see how well you like them.

I used to sell windows. One thing first off…. ALWAYS ALWAYS make sure you buy low-E with Argon gas windows!!!! That is a must. They are the most energy efficient types and will save you loads on heating and AC. If need be to save costs drop the Argon gas but not the low-E!!!!!!! If you can't afford low-E then do some now and some later. There is no reason anyone nowadays should buy anything else. PLEASE!!! Do yourself a favor. Some windows like Andersen come standard with those but other brands charge extra.

Low-E bounces heat back to its source. In the summer it reflects heat from outside and in the winter it bounces heat back to the room. Argon gas is a safe gas that acts as an insulator. Do not bother buying triple glass. It is a waste of money.

When you say "replacement" windows are you talking about ripping the old windows out WITH the frame and replacing everything from the outside of the house or vinyl plastic "Replacement windows"? There is a huge difference.

Piano windows are 3 individual windows within one casing/frame (sorry, I still don't speak "windowese")The windows on the end open, but the one in the middle doesn't. They are at about eye level on the wall

AS far as references go on the low bid, he has done 10 houses within 1/2 mile of us, they all look good from the outside. He was referred to us from a friend of our realtor. We will see the inside of the friend's house on Friday night. The friend spoke very highly of him. He is selling a reputable brand of window with a lifetime warranty. We checked the Better Business Bureau, he had no complaints in the last 36 months, as opposed to 3 and 9 complaints for the the other two bidders. We scoured the internet last night for dirt on him and could not find any.

The housing market here in the Mpls/St. Paul has gone into the tank of late as it has elsewhere and I have heard that more people staying put=more people remodelling=more competitive market.

And he's not doing a real hard sell, as opposed to one of the other bidders, who has dropped the price 10% (twice), and offered to wrap doors for free.

"Those factors DO make a difference if the rest of the house is otherwise well insulated, but if its not then insulated windows won't help that much."

This is just not true. Low-E glass can save you bundles. You lose 40% of heating costs on the average house with regular 2 pane glass. That is regardless of how well the rest of your house is insulated. Homes with lots of glass is very bad on saving energy costs. You need to keep every penny you can and not let it slip out the window. It's too expensive nowadays. Glass is a very bad insulator.

Avid gamer-yes, they are low e, double hung with argon gas. And I should clarify, they are "inserts" with any rotted wood being replaced. They will also be wrapped.

"they are low e, double hung with argon gas."

Very good.

"And I should clarify, they are "inserts" with any rotted wood being replaced. They will also be wrapped."

Okay but what do you mean by "inserts"? They are either "Replacements" or "new contruction" windows. It is industry speak.

Sounds like you're doing your homework. Like I said, good luck!

Let me clarify one thing… a few companies are making these window 'kits' that are tweeners. They are sort of replacements but still wood. Personally, I never liked them. Do you have water leaking inside the walls with the old windows? Rotting frames? Leaking water from the window sashes? I have found that most of the time it can be cheaper and faster to get new contruction windows. It is more work for the installer though but you can fix problems this way oonce you get the old frame out of the rough opening… but this process is more invasive.

Of course if you are planning to move in the next 1-5 years vinyl replacement is just fine. If you want to spend the next 10-20 years there than do new construction. That's what I would do.

Also… any of this work is tax free. You can deduct it from the 07 Federal tax return so save receipts. It is a home improvement saving energy. The installers told you that?

Actually my wife is doing all the homework :)

avid gamer-they are "replacements" from the Alside Ultramax. We are also considering Renewal By Anderson and Sunrise.

To me this feels like buying a used car. Any insight you'd care to share avidgamer?

Jjpattern2-Actually my wife is doing all the homework :)

avid gamer-they are "replacements" -Alside Ultramax. We are also considering Renewal By Anderson and Sunrise. This is the last house that I plan on buying. We have no leaking water and only one frame (the bathroom) is rotted.

How is it tax free? I know I get a 10% credit on my federal income tax up to $200, and I won't pay property tax on the improvements. Is there something else I should know about?

The trouble with new construction windows, as I understand it is that all our beautiful woodwork (that matches the floors and open oak staircase) would be ripped out, and to replace it with would would be prohibitively expensive, as well as nowhere near as energy efficient as vinyl. Also, the exterior of our house is stucco, which I also assume would make the installation costs increase

Either you go with cheaper but yet still good vinyl replacements (you lose the look of wood though and some hate that) or do the whole window as new contruction.

Vinyl windows do get a bad rap but they can be just as good in contruction, energy savings and ease of use as older wood windows. Many hate them but they are missing out on the whole picture.

Everyone wants real wood but real wood isat least double the cost of vinyl. Don't ever get the vinyl windows that are made to look like wood. Over time they look like crap. Oh and put a vinyl window in a bathroom especially if the window sits inside the shower area or where ventilation is a problem for the bathroom in general.

As a general rule Andersen windows are good and it is a very good company. They make good stuff. If the cost was even I'd go with them. Pela is good but more money by about a 1/3 more than Anderson. It really isn't worth the extra cash though.

Did you get an estimate from Home Depot and Lowe's? They might be cheaper PLUS… if you have a problem they are more likely to fix things than a smaller installer/rpivate contractor. Both large companies use good quality windows.

"We are also considering Renewal By Anderson and Sunrise. This is the last house that I plan on buying. We have no leaking water and only one frame (the bathroom) is rotted."

You should then get a new contruction window in the bathroom. The contractor will need to inspect the rough carefully. if the area is bad they may need to replace the wood. That can cost money but if you are staying it's just something you'll need. Avoid it and you will end up with more problems 5 years from now.

"How is it tax free? I know I get a 10% credit on my federal income tax up to $200, and I won't pay property tax on the improvements. Is there something else I should know about?"

It's a home improvement thing. Go into the nearest HP or Lowe's. Ask about this sort of thing and they will explain it for your as it applies in your area. I had a form that customers would fill out and it was simple. In your case it should apply and you pay no taxes. Ask.

"The trouble with new construction windows, as I understand it is that all our beautiful woodwork (that matches the floors and open oak staircase) would be ripped out, and to replace it with would would be prohibitively expensive, as well as nowhere near as energy efficient as vinyl. Also, the exterior of our house is stucco, which I also assume would make the installation costs increase"

That's all very true… Sorry. All true and that's why many don't go through with new contruction. I hear ya. In your case you'll have to weigh the good with the bad. It's a tough choice. Money doesn't grow on trees.

The bit about vinyl isn't 100% true though.

I know three people who have had work done by Home Depot and Lowes' contractors and I'd never do it personally. They all had multiple problems with the contractors and the store basically told them it wasn't their problem every time. The stores really just refer the work out to the contractors.

I've come to the conclusion that the really good guys don't need to cut the stores in on their business.

Yeah, I'd never have Home Depot or Lowes do the work, either. I respect the *opinion* of some of the guys at those stores, and I buy 99% of my home repair/remodeling supplies at one or the other, but I'd never hire them to do the actual work.

Aaron, You must have lousy stores in your area. In my area there are many Depots and many Lowe's. The competition is fierce between stores so customer satisfaction if the only thing that separates them. When a contractor screwsup the stores bend over backwards to make it right.

I don't know. We're lousy with them too and they seem to conveniently pull out the "We just farm the work out, you have to deal with the contractor." Line a lot around here. Those are just the three instances I personally know about, though. I'd bet they've farmed out hundreds if not thousands of jobs in our area. Maybe I just know unlucky people.

My rule of thumb is always to be suspicious if the guy can start immediately. Good contractors always have plenty of work lined up!

I've just had the window guy here. it was $600 USD a window for the top of the line. ask around work if other people have had windows done. we found our guy thru our brother in law. wonderful small company. this is there 3rd time back. had a 2 bays and french doors installed before. the windows are from Republic. enhancementwindows.com

We replaced the windows in our 100 plus year house last year…

Price came to about $900 USD per window, with discounts, installed.

Having replaced windows in a couple of houses now, I would recommend that you do not skimp. Buy top quality and from someone with a good reputation for replacement windows. I would avoid the big box stores – I've had plenty of problems going that route…

Anyhow if you want good quality windows that "fit" with the style of your home, you can expect to pay between $800 USD and $1,000 per window (assuming an average – your bigger windows will cost more and small will cost less).

You end up paying more for the contractors as well if you go through Home Depot or Lowes. I'm not sure any accountability you get through the big box stores is worth the extra money.

Just my $.02.

I had a house burn a few years back. I used vinyl double pane with innert gas between the panes. Also I got the ones with the reflective exterior. Reduced energy consumption about 15% all by themselves. They also have the added advantage of privacy during the day. The only time you can see inside is at night if there's a light on. These cost a lot up front but you will recoup your investment in about 14 years. Something to think about.

mjc

In the UK it is common for a town to have many companies selling/fitting windows and only a couple actually manufacturing them. This may be the case in the USA.

So, it may possible to buy the windows from the mamufacturer and then find someone to fit them. In this way the pricing is more transparent.

(Sorry about the pun but the words are the words.)

I was thinking of replacing some of my windows, but at $1,000 USD a pop, I may have to defer this project for awhile. this is a good discussion though and has given me some good ideas.

Alte Fritz-I don't think that they guy I'm using here in MN will go to IL. :)

Seriously, shop around. Do you have friends that have had windows replaced? Does your realtor know anyone that had a good experience replacing windows? We talked to 5 different companies and it was starting to wear on us, but I'm glad we did as we learned lots. In fact, my boss was so impressed with all the "homework" that we did that he essentially stole it and is using the same contractor we are. Having gone through the process of shopping windows, I would equate it to buying a used car. From what I have read, a good salesman can make a ton of money selling this stuff.

Our soffit and gutter work starts today, and windows in two weeks. I will keep you posted.

Coggon, definitely let us know how it all goes. I'm obviously still watching this thread.

:)

Minor Update-the soffit, fascia and gutter work was completed last week. We are quite pleased with the work and can't wait for the windows to go in so that they match the aforementioned soffit fascia and gutter.

Update-25 of the 27 windows were installed in the past two days. My wife and I very happy with windows and the installer (he did a wonderful job of cleaning up the mess inside and spent last night staining a 36 small pieces of custom trim for our piano windows-he also custom cut some wood to ensure our window A/C units fit properly, all at no additional charge)

The low e glass does make a difference in the amount of sunlight coming in. I am eagerly looking forward to reduced heating bills this winter. And the windows look fabulous! We very hesitant about getting the fake wood veneer but it seems to match the exisitng oak just fine. In even passed the wife's scrutiny.

It was a long ardous process, and I am very glad that we shopped around. We ended up paying less than half of what I thought we would.