"Open Letter from Tony Reidy of Wargames Factory" Topic

Maybe this will shed some light on this for some of you folks, this is from their website:

TO THE WARGAMES FACTORY COMMUNITY,
Clearly this company has been experiencing operational difficulties. Our concern is that these issues are affecting the company's ability to follow through on commitments and obligations to both our customers and our vendors.

Please be aware that the new Wargames Factory team has been and will continue doing everything in our power to put the situation right.

IF YOU HAVE PLACED AN ORDER,
and you have not received it or for any reason you are dissatisfied, please contact us immediately at the following e-mail address:
customerservice@wargamesfactory.com

Please assist us
by supplying the following information so that we may resolve your matter quickly,

�¡Date of order
�¡Method of payment – if ordered through Paypal, please supply the transaction I.D. #
�¡Items ordered
�¡Would you like the original order be filled or would you prefer a refund?
�¡Shipping address

IF YOU ARE A VENDOR,
and you have unpaid invoices, please contact us immediately at the following e-mail address
vendorservice@wargamesfactory.com

Please assist us
by supplying the following information so that we may resolve your matter quickly,

�¡Services rendered
�¡Copy of original invoice

WEB POSTINGS AND FORUM ALLEGATIONS
There is much misinformation as well as some serious allegations being circulated throughout cyberspace regarding the current state of affairs. As the new corporate manager of Wargames Factory, at the appropriate time, I will address all of the false and inaccurate statements and allegations that are being posted on the Wargames Factory website. There are more important and pressing operational matters to deal with right now without getting distracted or involved in a �gmudslinging match�h with previous management. Defamatory statements made about any individuals will be taken up with legal counsel and dealt with to the fullest extent allowed by law.

MOVING FORWARD
The single most crucial emergency that WGF now faces is the immediate determination of who has placed and paid for orders and has not received them. We have been attempting to obtain that information from the previous management but without success and the records we do have are unreliable or inaccurate. Therefore, we now must rely upon our customers to assist us in restoring this information so that we may make things right.

What we need more than anything else is communication. Specifically, if you are owed an order, please let us know so that we can accommodate you in whatever way that you see fit. If you are a vendor who is owed money by WGF, please send us a copy of your outstanding invoice.

George Sivy
Managing Director, Wargames Factory

It is here on their webpage: wargamesfactory.com/Home.htm

For the record I am in no way connected to this company, just sharing some information that may be useful to some.

Warlord

It is interesting that this has become a race based issue.

Let us just say the investor rather than naming a particular person.

Then it becomes a different situation.

If it comes to light that one person within the company manipulated the communication with said investor then unfortunately that is business…evil and conniving, but business. Happens every day.

Now that it happened in our small community it is almost personal.

I seem to remember a large gaming company that borrowed money from a large collectible card company, then the card company called in the loan the very next month…knowing the gaming company had not finished collecting their monthly income…only a few people remained with the game company as the card company cleaned house.

Also evil, but again business practices.

The part that really strikes me odd is the argument that all Chinese are not bad (which they are not, they are just people from a different culture) yet all Americans are bad (which they are not, they are just people from different culture).

It seems whenever an issue comes up lately that it swings full circle that America and Americans are evil and have no right to say anything about anything except American issues.

I am just confused by all of this.

I have relatives in England, Ireland, and Scotland…being first generation American myself I have direct ties to other soil.

I can say as a whole we Americans and American gamers don't harbor hate or disgust for those people and gamers in Europe. I bring this up because it seems that there is a serious "Americans are evil" popping up for every issue that comes around.

This is a gaming forum.

We discuss things related to gaming.

National politics have no place here.

*****

Tony has made a statement and is surely upset. How this became a hate China or hate America is just insane.

History is written by the victors, and with business the victors are often the ones who act in a callous and calculating manner.

*****

Reminds me of stories of woe, from over the pond where a large gaming company offered to help the small store retailers only to get them indebted to them, move in next door, and put the majority of small stores under.

Certainly that was evil.

Sigh.

*****

In the end, hopefully the people who started WF who are no longer with their company can move past this…learn from their business mistakes, start a new company, choose their co-workers more carefully, and work only within the limits that they can control.

And that the people here on TMP can get back to their senses and stop with the race and nationality issues.

Get some paint on some miniatures and play some games for goodness sake.

"I'm still amazingly disappointed with a lot of people here.

A company owes money to its suppliers (reading Tony's first sentence, he says there are debts) and it seems they offer said suppliers equity in the operation in order to stay in operation. Business doesn't turn around despite what the legacy management says and debts increase and the now majority owner decides to cut his losses and decides to keep the sales part of the business in operation to try and salvage something…"

"I wouldn't want to be championing the PRC in a debate about racist attitudes… That aside I read the likely business case the same way."

Two Wongs don't make a Right?…

Well said 28mmMan. I remember a saying "Just because you can does not mean you should"

Warlord

This thread is nearly as good as the accused counterfeiter one..

I can say as a whole we Americans and American gamers don't harbor hate or disgust for those people and gamers in Europe.

Humm. Can I say that we non-Americans, see lots of anti words directed toward non-Americans (BP has been mentioned, French well think freedom fries…) and we think, well if Americans did not think that way, then these things would not be said.

So really the view is different if you are looking into the USA from outside.

On a personal level I remember the time I went over to a convention in LA and the attitude with which I was regarded because I did not play the same way as the local way – some even accused me of cheating. Fine, be that way, but it does not encourage acceptance in the world-wide community.

And in a sphere where it really mattered, a friend of mine (British army) took a number of senior Iraqi officers for a meal in a US canteen in the Green Zone, only to be told by a US sergeant, no Iraqis allowed in (see previous post about no Chinese allowed in parks in Hong Kong). Well the response to that was, "well if your Iraqi allies are not allowed in, your British allies will not eat here either.". Remember this was this was their country and these Iraqis were going to be running the Iraqi army, crazy.

And this point is only made to possibly show you that the world is not as you think it is.

sector51 Just to point out to you the sign in Hong Kong about "No Chinese allowed" would have been put there by the British not by Americans.

YouTube link

I don't know if what Mr. Reidy says is true. The letter if true is certainly worth looking into.
If true, why is it not "professional" for Mr. Reidy write the open letter? Tell the truth as it is to as many as will listen. Maybe if more of this was done there would be less of it.

Sector, I understand that we all have stories that can illustrate positive or negative about people, regardless of where they are from.

Travel enough and you will see just about everything and a few more that you wish you could unsee…people are people and given the right situation they will shine or dull your opinion.

*****

I have 21yrs of military service and all that comes with that…no personal atrocities or the like, but plenty of examples to weigh either way…depending on what you want to say.

You can get mugged at an American movie theater and you can get beat down at a football game in England…change the venue and the country as you see fit…because people are people and will behave well or poorly equally, regardless of their nationality.

To say otherwise is spitting against the wind.

*****

To claim that one country has history without issues of national behavior that can be seen as disrespectful by some other culture is a significant example of denial.

I don't know if what Mr. Reidy says is true. The letter if true is certainly worth looking into.
If true, why is it not "professional" for Mr. Reidy write the open letter? Tell the truth as it is to as many as will listen. Maybe if more of this was done there would be less of it.

Regardless of right and wrong one of the most valued assets of a 'professional' is discretion. Companies need to know that whether they are planning a kids Xmas party or plotting to fit up a rival that their people can be relied upon to keep shtum, regardless of what happens down the road. Like many things thie reputation you get tends to affect future relationshsips, not old ones. Right now I should think Tony is seriously worrying about whether the 'Investor/s' is/are considering legal action, because if they have the sort of wedge that has been alluded to it's exactly what I'd do. Call it the GW gambit, if you will. My advice to Tony would be crank out a public apology ASAP (with a lot more thought than went into the original outpouring) and hope that the 'Investor' (yes, I know he's Chinese but it upsets McWong if we say so) is kind enough to accept.

As for the bloke Lonnie, right now he must be thinking he's the only naughty person on the planet, judging by the amount of uninformed sanctimonious guff being spewed in his direction. He might be a cad (I for one have no idea) but if there really was only one seat left in the lifeboat, how many of us would be jumping into the drink while nobly pointing Tony or anybody else in the direction of the seat?

I dont think there is any real racism here its just the perceived notion that dealing with companies in the PRC
is a negative thing. It may or may not be true but I doubt that it is meant as a racial attack as much as it is a political one.

There is also a fear of the Chinese businesses taking over too many American assetts especially since we are doing such a great job ourselves(sarcasm).

BTW it is NOT a common thing that Americans are obsessed with guns. In my 51 years I have never had anyone show me their ten thousand gun collection or try to strongarm me into joing the NRA. This is a great example of a misperception as any.

There is a difference between stating the obvious fact that there are a lot of QA problems in companies in the PRC, and being racist against Chinese.

Old Bear, I think you are correct because this is how it often works.
I am concerned that wrongdoers can hide behind a veil of discretion and professionalism.
I am aware that the truth has not been determined. So, I am not on either side of this. I am keeping an open mind.

sector51 Just to point out to you the sign in Hong Kong about "No Chinese allowed" would have been put there by the British not by Americans.

Oh yes, that was the point I was making, how we used to behave when we had the greatest empire on the planet.

And I also remember how my parents generation treated foreigners. It is not new.

I have been to Hong Kong both under British and Chinese rule and yes it is a different place.

Also had an animated conversation with a Chinese army major (in China) about the Harrier jump jet, in French because neither of us spoke each others language. He had served in Vietnam and learned French as that was the second language spoken there at the time. So these days we travel and adapt, rather than impose.

"BTW it is NOT a common thing that Americans are obsessed with guns. In my 51 years I have never had anyone show me their ten thousand gun collection or try to strongarm me into joining the NRA. This is a great example of a misperception as any."

Even after 21yrs in the US Marines/Coast Guard I have never owned a gun other than the one issued to me while in the service…I retired in 2003 and I still do not have a collection of guns yet.

It is a crazy world we live in…Rule #3 fasten your seatbelt it is going to be a bumpy ride.

There's no shortage of people in any country, race, or creed that will immediately assume the statements and/or actions of a few represent the entire group.

The ironic part is when those same people complain when it's done to them.

So how can I get more WSS figures?

Old Bear, I think you are correct because this is how it often works.
I am concerned that wrongdoers can hide behind a veil of discretion and professionalism.
I am aware that the truth has not been determined. So, I am not on either side of this. I am keeping an open mind.

Castellan, a very wise decision, at this time, I think. Something a few others here and elsewhere should consider.

Initially this thread was interesting, in that it seemed out of place with the usual business here, then became a bit like ghoulish rubbernecking at a car crash, but it has quickly turned sour and I have to say that some of the posters here are making it really easy to grab the moral high ground. While the view from up here is a new one for me, I think it is time to call it a day. Cant we shut this thread down and move on, at least until "the facts" whatever they are, become known?

Cheers

Ken

So, to get back OT:

The not-so-new owners of WF have now posted 2 rational and clear statements posting their intent of clearing up the backlog of orders for retail and trade customers, and that they view doing so as more important than mud slinging.

The 'old management' have gone in for mudslinging and hiding the books.

In the "Professional Stakes" that looks like 2:0 to the new guys to me.

Never let the facts get in the way of a good lynching though eh?

Maybe I'm naive but as China is a vast nation with multiple ethnic regions when I read "Chinese" I don't think of a race but rather a nationality. So if I say the Chinese are out to take over the world through economic means is that being against a race or a nation?

Doing business in any foreign nation is beset with pitfalls that any business person not experienced in international business practices can easily fall prey to. China can have exceptionally big pitfalls in that the Government (still communist by the way) has ironclad protections in place for its native businesses (more so than most)and we westerners tend to misjudged the intelligence/savy of the business people we are dealing with when conducting business in what could be considered developing economies.

I think a what and see approach is the best case in this scenario. Will the new guys take care of their customers? Will they be socially conscience? These are my questions. If they do then I may eventually begin ordering from them again. If Tony and the other old managers from WF start up a business again, I'll probably order from them if they produce a product I like. If they start up a new company and put product I like in a socially conscience manner then I will be even more apt to buy from them.

Truth is the last thing anyone can decide upon.

Every relationship is like a covered dish until you lift the lid off and look whats underneath.

Emotional expectations and the financial accounts matching would a miracle even in a thriving market.

Methinks somebody decided to throw a bucket of reality filled with freezing cold water over people in denial……

BTW I cant be racist because I am English and we treat all non English races the same :)

So how can I get more WSS figures?

Lots of stockists out there at the moment. I see stuff on ebay, I know a couple of traders, I sell it. Not a problem.

Replacing my stock, no idea. Its like being in charge of a petrol station when there is a tanker strike. Once its gone, its gone.

Also since when is Chinese a separate race, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't have like oodles of different races and ethnicities? So no one is being racist. Folks are just saying that doing business with companies in China is more of a crapshoot then their used to. Every nation has it's business quirks, especially countries in an economic wild water ride.

I personally don't care where things are made, I value quality vs. price, for some things I'm willing to pay for quality, sometimes I see more value in a low price. I think that it's a good thing that China is catching up with the rest of the world in an economic sense. I think it was shortsighted to outsource so much to the east, it's going to bite you in the ass eventually, some of the ass biting has already happened. But all that outsourcing was good for the east, I don't mind that.

I am curious to see what will happen to WGF in the future, will they get better or not?

LinkHunter99 said:

The not-so-new owners of WF have now posted 2 rational and clear statements posting their intent of clearing up the backlog of orders for retail and trade customers, and that they view doing so as more important than mud slinging.

The 'old management' have gone in for mudslinging and hiding the books.

In the "Professional Stakes" that looks like 2:0 to the new guys to me.

Add to that: the fact that I never managed to get an email response from the old team in 3 months of requests yet in the last week have sent 2 to the new team and had prompt and helpful replies both times.

The old team at WF put themselves (and us disappointed customers)in this position and have to take responsibilty for this situation.
Selling pre-ordered sprues at shows rather than sending them to people who had already paid for them. (need to cover short term cash crisis?)
Chosing silence rather than admission when it came to owning up to the problem they were in.
Pretending on public forum posts that nothing amiss was happening.(See these lovely painted WSS figures…..but actually we already know you can't have yours)
Keeping the webstore open while knowing they could not fulfil orders.

The whole thing is shambolic and shows very poor business management ability. I am really sorry for the way things have turned out (especially for Howard…the only WF team member who I have had any dealings with, and those outside of WF directly).
I have no reason to doubt the comments here and on the WF forum about how great Tony et al are as people. Unfortunately they should stick to the creative/inspirational aspects of business, leave the dirty/mundane aspects of management to people better suited to it.

Over the last few weeks I have been castigated as the lead voice against WF based on my posts here, maybe so. Unfortunately the situation is: old team took $150 USD of my money and never sent me any product and never told me what was going on. New team didn't get my money, but have publicly and privately declared the intent to supply me my order and given me realistic timescales for doing so.

Just food for thought….

Hmmm… as I mentioned before, there are a *lot* of screen names popping up in this discussion that I have never seen before.

A few points:

1.) This discussion has nothing to do with PRC, racism, BP, Haliburton, or any other political hot button. Take 'em to the Blue Fez. It has to do solely with Wargames Factory and its current state.

2.) WF is a U.S. company; it and its employees are governed by U.S. laws and the laws of Massachusetts. Observations regarding laws in the UK have as much relevance as ones regarding laws in Bongolesia— that is, none at all.

3.) "Professionalism" may sound good, and may be wise diplomacy, but whenever a company resorts to "corporate-ese," it's almost never a good sign for the consumer. In my experience, it's usually evidence of a snow job.

4.) Let's stop pretending that Wargames Factory is some sort of global mega-corp. It isn't and never was. It was a small-time operation by five or six guys who liked to play wargames and wanted to make cheap plastic miniatures. From appearances, it's now down to one guy who wasn't originally part of that mix and whose game industry experience is based on a much larger firm with a larger available workforce and broader and deeper market presence, not to mention an entirely different operational philosophy. The only other name directly attached appears to be a corporate person assigned to oversee him, possibly from afar, chosen by a likely mostly-disinterested Chinese company, whom I believe may have thought they were dealing with a different scale of operation and market than they actually were.

5.) So WF is now down to two people, one of whom in all likelihood knows nothing about the wargaming market, and the other whose business concepts come from being a bit player at Games Workshop, where the bulk of the company operations he never saw or dealt with, and who is now discovering the joys of having to fill on his own the labors of five other people, not to mention contracted workers at the Triangle facility. Good luck with that.

6.) Which means all that "professional" corporate speak you are reading at the WF forum that sounds oh so big and polished and important is being generated by a grand total of two people. And that nonsense about "extent of the law" is bogus bloviating to cover the fact that they're up the proverbial dangerous waterway without the necessary propulsion device. If they bother to even actually approach an attorney, my guess is that one with any brains will ask them on what grounds and to what end they wish to take legal action, and who's going to pay his fee? There's no money to be had, and no jury in Massachusetts is going to rule against a bunch of hobby guys who've had their business stolen by a corporation, especially one based in China. And I don't think that after any thoughtful review the parent corporation is going to bother to spend good money after bad in this instance, as the legal costs are going to far outweigh the value of WF as a company for anytime in the near future. It's utter nonsense.

Finally, given the state of things, while I feel bad for Tony, Howard and Co. and support them, the one headed for disaster is Lonnie Mullins. His little coup is fixing to come crashing down on his head as his distant masters begin to realize they've been sold a bill of goods. I wouldn't be in his shoes for all the miniatures Wargames Factory ever produced. Loyalty has value, Lonnie. You sell it out at your own peril.

Bring back Tony.

There's no money to be had, and no jury in Massachusetts is going to rule against a bunch of hobby guys who've had their business stolen by a corporation, especially one based in China.

Lovely. This is why behaving in a professional manner is best.

I sincerely hope that any jury takes an unbiased view.

Hmmm… as I mentioned before, there are a *lot* of screen names popping up in this discussion that I have never seen before.

They might be taking a leaf out of :-|

The only other name directly attached appears to be a corporate person assigned to oversee him, possibly from afar, chosen by a likely mostly-disinterested Chinese company,

Based on LLC filing papers, he most definitely is from afar, the address listed is in a residential area of a small town in CO, no where near MA and the day to day operations.

Some other points to consider:

- WF was a small operation, and is much smaller now. So the people left have a lot to cover and do, and little time to communicate. Those let go have a lot more time to stew over things, and voice their concerns/complaints/opinions.

- Certain previous events, when viewed in the light of the info contained in Tony's letter, and the info John and Howard have shared, make 100% sense now. FREX, the problems with emails not being replied to by WF over the last month or so makes complete sense if someone had shut down or was otherwise intercepting them. There are other examples as well.

I see this thread has deteriorated nicely in the absence of facts. Remember folks, less evidence = bigger conspiracy.

BTW, I'll have to remember "Godwin's Law".

I have no dog in this race. From what I understand Parzival makes good, sensible points about the situation. The new 'management' of WF has some serious PR hurdles to overcome. Only time will tell if they can repair them.

So really the view is different if you are looking into the USA from outside.

Seriously… There are 300 million of us, and some idiot gave us the Internet. And we believe in free speech even when you're an imbecile that should keep their mouth shut (this author may, on occasion, have fit that category)…

So judging America by what you saw online? Bad juju. We love the UK, we want to live in Australia, we think Japanese culture rocks, and we did our best to buy all of the above in the heyday of the 90s. :-P

Now back to your regularly scheduled melodrama…

Don.

So how can I get more WSS figures?

Persuading the lynch mob to calm the down might be a start. Hasty petitions and boycotts can only hasten the decision by the new owners to cut their losses and wind up Wargames Factory.

So how can I get more WSS figures?

Bob and his Dog, check here:

TMP link

This is just a vender who carrys their product so may be a safe way to get them.

Warlord

Juries do not normally sit on corporate law proceedings :(

I think we are forgetting that this is a small company of gamers wanting to make inexpensive miniatures and build a company that will provide for their families…most gaming companies are run by gamers and not corporate suit types.

It is a common issue seen with the majority of businesses that start from the hobby aspect…the backyard cook or beer master thinks the transition into professional production will be easy and seamless.

As it is with most, not all, but most gaming companies. Without some strong business direction/support and ultimately financial structure that is completely unrelated to the game aspect the hope of long term primary independence is questionable.

I appreciated the efforts behind the original core of WF and what they were trying to do…admirable and sustainable, in theory. The practice seemed to be going well enough, certainly there were bumps and mistakes made…but I suspect the mistakes made by the original core WF personnel were not malicious but rather due to inexperience dealing with international marketing and business practices…which have eaten the lunch of many a company with far deeper pockets and bigger shoes…so not all is lost.

Hopefully the experience gained from all of this will arm them to move beyond this stage if it arises again.

The lessons of Niccolò di Bernardo dei Machiavelli are as true today as they were then,

"For among other evils caused by being disarmed, it renders you contemptible; which is one of those disgraceful things which a prince must guard against"-Niccolo Machiavelli

"It is necessary for him who lays out a state and arranges laws for it to presuppose that all men are evil and that they are always going to act according to the wickedness of their spirits whenever they have free scope"-Niccolo Machiavelli

"One who deceives will always find those who allow themselves to be deceived"-Niccolo Machiavelli

It seems odd, that neither Howard nor Tony have commented since the initial letter and first page of comments. I think they should be providing some sort of updates.

***** news flash ******

rumours abound that Ex Illis (Bastion) has also had the .

Manufactured by the same company in China. Coincidence? It could be.

There have been some terminally stupid comments by people who think they know what they are talking about but don't.

First, the US is the largest manufacturing country in the world. China is #2 and will surpass us. We will then be the second largest manufacturing country in the world.

As to Tony Reidy's business sense, I find it pretty good. He defined his target market: wargamers who would buy good (not the best) inexpensive plastic figures. In order to hit his target market he needed a relatively inexpensive manufacturing process. Manufacturers in England and the US would not let them market their figures at the price advantage they were shooting for. This meant a Chinese manufacturer. Tony, et. al., seems to have been undercapitalized so they traded ownership for capitalization. In order to protect their investment the backers required at least 51%. At this point it didn't matter whether Tony owned 49% or 4%. Control had to be given to the backer in order to protect his investment or no manufacturing. In the agreement was the opportunity in January to buy controlling interest. This is all standard stuff. Nothing unusual in all this. I think Tony did a good job over pulling design, manufacturing, and sales together. So, there is nothing wrong with his business sense. I think it's quite good.

Debts: it is normal for startups to be indebt for an extended period. The offer of equity to suppliers is not a sign of desperation but again a standard business practice. It allows them an equity position in the business. Standard practice for a start up.

His major error (no one is perfect) was not guarding his line of communication with the manufacturer/backer. He should have had an agreement with his backer that all communications go through him. At the first hint that Lonnei was going behind his back, Lonnie should have been fired.

As for the letter, what the hell is unprofessional about it? He told Wai Kee Hui that Wei had made a mistake by relying on Lonnie. He then spelled out why he felt it was a mistake. He also offered to buy the company back. In my opinion Mr Wai Kee Hui did make a business error. He backed a disgruntled employee. And to show what an error it was, Wei (or his representative) made the change of management without first securing the custumer list, very stupid. I think this was a result of Wei trusting Lonnie.

I think Tony has good business sense and handled himself well. But then, I have a solid business background so naturally I would see it that way.

There have been some terminally stupid comments by people who think they know what they are talking about but don't.

Welcome to the internet and public forums.

Perhaps he has calmed down now and regreted it …

I loved the idea of wargames factory I just never liked the figures, sorry.

If their business model had worked and made healthy profits this wouldnt have surely never happened?

It seems like their approach required an aggresive release schedule which broke the bank.

I wonder if the product had been of the perry quality things may have been different.

Blucher, if the figures had Perry quality they would have had a Perry price.

I can't believe some of the things I have read on this thread. My stifle button has been getting a work out.

Kind of sucks about Tony. Liked there Roman stuff as I thought it painted well. When WF started I was thrilled. Using Triangle for packaging, recycling plastic and I thought made in the US. I have nothing against China as almost everything is made there. I just like buying from US manufactures when I can. Much like I prefer to shop and my local hobby shops than the internet and shop at my local hardware store than the "Big Box" stores.

Call me a with a heart (Not many of us):P

"There have been some terminally stupid comments by people who think they know what they are talking about but don't."

"Welcome to the internet and public forums."

Forest Gump's mama was right: "Stupid is as stupid does."

Y'all want real unexpurgated internet stupid? I challenge you right now to go venture into the *political* blogoshpere for a few hours.

Just one thing: leave me in your wills before you do, as your heads might spontaneously and fatally explode after the first half dozen exchanges…

Leland R. Erickson

Eight pages already. This topic will run and run.

Page 8 Woot!

Damnmit Chortle beat me to the firsty post. Drats. : )

Y'all want real unexpurgated internet stupid? I challenge you right now to go venture into the *political* blogoshpere for a few hours

I think I have had enough of this for a life time – Good grief!

That's interesting news about Ex Illis, and worth looking into further – anyone got more info?

Old Bear, the problem I had wasn't saying that person X was Chinese, it was all the commentary that anyone who does business in China and with the Chinese are bound to end up on the losing side. I've worked at companies large and small that do both manufacturing and business in China, ranging from small fashion companies to one of the world's largest PC manufacturers. It's not especially difficult to do business in China, and there is a lot of misunderstanding about what's required to business in China – there's no shame or embaressment in not knowing what those are, but there's also no excuse for publicly posting ignorance like "this is what you get for doing business in China" or worse "I won't deal with a company that does business in China".

I don't think the latter has to do with race, McWong. I think it has to do with the government of China. There's not much love in the free west for oppressive totalitarian regimes; that's what spills over into the business comments. It's no different than saying "This is what you get for doing business in Iran," or "I won't deal with a company that does business in Iran." It's anger at those in power, not at the people.

Personally, I wouldn't say "I won't deal with a company that does business in China." But if I were to enter a business agreement with any company in such a regime, I would look very, very carefully at the terms. As much as I support Tony and Wargames Factory, I think in hindsight they would have to agree that the deal they thought they were making and the deal they wound up with are worlds apart.