"Open Letter from Tony Reidy of Wargames Factory" Topic

Just a shame that WF is going to go down the hill that it is going, without brakes or headlights.

Let us address this subject in 6 months and I suspect there will be more facts available.

Here's from the Wargames Factory home page, a statement from George Sivy concerning the internet chatter on this matter under discussion:

"WEB POSTINGS AND FORUM ALLEGATIONS

There is much misinformation as well as some serious allegations being circulated throughout cyberspace regarding the current state of affairs. As the new corporate manager of Wargames Factory, at the appropriate time, I will address all of the false and inaccurate statements and allegations that are being posted on the Wargames Factory website. There are more important and pressing operational matters to deal with right now without getting distracted or involved in a "mudslinging match" with previous management. Defamatory statements made about any individuals will be taken up with legal counsel and dealt with to the fullest extent allowed by law. "

You can read the full statement here:

wargamesfactory.com

I leave you all to draw your own conclusions.

Leland R. Erickson

What a lovely way to deal with your customers. Delightful!

And what's with yanks and "free speech"?

"Screw the Chinese" (plus there were a lot of similiar statements in spirit and in speech)

It does not get much wronger. What the heck does the nationality of anyone involved has to do with all this? If the guy (whoever he is, I do not quite understand this whole thing) was from the US, would the reaction be "Screw the Americans"? (I really want to read that next time, from you Mr HesseCassel).

The whole thing is quite amusing, comments in that vein are not.

Where's the WGF forum? I went to BWP linky and no forum listed.

same, they must have deleted the forum or temporarily blocked everyone. Such a shame to happen to such nice company.

Here's the direct link to the Lefora Forum, which is still very much active, but which current management appear to have removed the link to. There was a problem late last week when certain posts containing the names of former employee's were being deleted by unknown parties, but that seems to have stopped. How long the Forum remains up is anyone's guess, since it is getting pretty ugly over there.

wargamesfactory.lefora.com

Bill
Sir William the Aged

"Business is business." Didn't I hear that slogan in a gangster movie?

Seriously, that phrase is misused to excuse all sorts of unethical and callous behavior. Business may be business, but humanity is still humanity.

A man has a dream. He gives birth to that dream, and struggles to make it grow. And then another man comes along and steals that dream from him and shuts him out, all for the sake of "business." I find nothing in that worthy of applauding, whatever excuse anyone wants to offer.

Puts me in mind of something I read once: 2 Samuel 12:1-7

You see, it doesn't matter that much whether an action is taken with legal authority. It doesn't matter if one has the power to do it, or the "legal right" to do it, or any other justification at all. It matters only whether the action itself is just or unjust. It matters only whether the action is right or wrong. What has been done to Tony is wrong. And that's enough to tell me whose side I am on.

Trust is one thing control is better.

As WF is now owed by a Chinese Company they can do what they want and will. However using an insulting and direct approach and telling them instead of using a few maybes or perhapses you wont get past go.

Dealing direct with china has a very negative history regarding wargaming. Does anyone remember the case of the thousands of painted Napoleonic figures that upon being inspected back in Britain all had slanted eyes.

Or the case of a painting master sample that had its sword broken off in transit. That caused the chinese contractor to break off all the swords on the figures in the order to match the master.

Solution is to appoint a quality control point in Hong Kong and to use them as progress chasers as they get instant results. ( They are normally related to the company owners )

Expecting a partner in China to understand anything other than the bottom line when regarding Wargaming is plain naive at best.

My advice start a new company see all this as a learning curve :)

What has been done to Tony is wrong. And that's enough to tell me whose side I am on.

But Tony has insulted and harmed the reputation of others, that is wrong also, do 2 wrongs make a right?

Expecting a partner in China to understand anything other than the bottom line when regarding Wargaming is plain naive at best.

Or racism at worst, all Chinese are the same are they?
I will be sure to treat the Chinese in my family as money hungry and not as individuals in that case.

All of those playing the race card with regards to China really need to try and grow up a bit, if you ask me. Am I the only one to whom it was abundantly clear that "screw the Chinese" referred specifically to the company directly involved? Oh sure, the phraseology wasn't perhaps touchy-feely enough for a certain minority of types who appear to spend their time looking to call others racist, but even so to me it was obvious.

As for "Expecting a partner in China to understand anything other than the bottom line when regarding Wargaming is plain naive at best." Isn't it obviuous that he means a combination of simple distance and social differences. is there a big wargaming market in China where loads of blokes go on web sites and get het up about playing with toy soldiers? I'm betting there isn't.

I'm no expert on the place but when I was at Mongoose I not only dealt with the Chinese but actually met the main blokes we were dealing with. Thoroughly nice to deal with on the surface but the cultural gap was immense, and oddly enough I sort of expected that, themn being from the other side of the world and all. Wow, who would have thought it?

What always made me smile was that the contacts at the company always gave themselves English names in order that we could feel more comfortable in dealing with them. You think maybe they get that there's a cultural difference too?

No doubt some of you guys (like Rdfraf for example) are Chinese or of Chinese extraction. That's very nice, but get over yourselves and try and understand that using the terminology "the Chinese" in this case really doesn't mean the whole lot of you.

Expecting a partner in China to understand anything other than the bottom line when regarding Wargaming is plain naive at best.

Absolutely 100% spot on and in this I do have direct and personal experience. I have absolutely no doubt that to really make a link with the Chinese (no, not literally all of them) work, you need a man from your company on the ground there as a liaison all the time. This isn't because the Chinese (no, not literally all of them) are abrasive or difficult – in fact it's quite the contrary. They bend over backwards to try and help, bizarrely doing things like the broken sword example above and several I could mention, in one particular case straightening the legs of one sculpt so it could stand up flat without a base (even though they were also making the bases and mounting the minis on them!). They though they were helping but the pose was meant to be a crouch and over a month was lost putting it right.

Kiss your company goodbye Tony, you have just completed business suicide.

Totally unprofessional conduct, by writing such a stupid letter who's going to want to work with you in the future.

Everytime your business partner makes a decision you don't like, do you plan to screw them over in public like this?

I'm no expert on the place but when I was at Mongoose I not only dealt with the Chinese but actually met the main blokes we were dealing with. Thoroughly nice to deal with on the surface but the cultural gap was immense, and oddly enough I sort of expected that, themn being from the other side of the world and all. Wow, who would have thought it?

Also expect them to remember the nice little touches we had, when we were in charge.

Signs to parks in Hong Kong; "No dogs or Chinese allowed"

But I would have thought it normal if you have a business partner who has not paid their debts to foreclose and get what you can back. Or am I missing something?

The latest I have read said that WF did not have $1,000 USD to post out the pre-orders. That makes money at WF almost non-existant.

Ok this has made a lot of news on here .. I think we need to take a step back as there is not enough info for us to really make judgements .. the only one I feel I can make is the letter should have been a little better thought out and shown to the "right" people .. all the letter does for me as a consumer is say .. dont think I will put my money there .. so if the aim was bring down the company .. mission successful .. if it was really to save it I say .. SELL YA SHARES DUDE !! and start a new company .. if you are as much loved and trusted as the posts here suggest .. you will be a success and the other guys will fade away … !!!
Suggestion .. 15mm Sci Fi LOL 8)

Is this a 21st century Chinese take away

All of those playing the race card with regards to China really need to try and grow up a bit, if you ask me. Am I the only one to whom it was abundantly clear that "screw the Chinese" referred specifically to the company directly involved?

The person or company in question have names, use them.
It is not difficult.

Is SCREW THE AMERICANS ok, if it is meant at just one poster in this thread?

I think not.

But I would have thought it normal if you have a business partner who has not paid their debts to foreclose and get what you can back. Or am I missing something?

It does seem to appear relatively straightforward, doesn't it? From my expereince I find it highly unlikely that the Chinese guys involved were in any way trying to stage a coup or whatever. In fact they appear to be considerably more able as businessmen than their counterparts were.

The person or company in question have names, use them.
It is not difficult.

Why? Who made you the Language Captain?

"That was the ultimate result, if I recall correctly. But I was referring to the situation leading up to it where each power had their areas of influence and the governors (for lack of a better term) of those regions were happier to take orders from the foreign devils rather than from Beijing."

That is an interesting take on history. Its probably inappropriate to take it much further on this thread.

There are tensions in China today but by and large the Government is seen to be doing well. Where is today's Tai Ping?

I cannot see a replay of the Opium Wars by the 'Powers' as China is too strong and united while the 'Powers' are over extended, divided, and too weak.

It seems from Black Widow Pilot's post and link that customers are to get a refund or their order filled. A step in the right direction then.

You dont need to be "Language Captain" to address people by their names, that is what most people call politeness and manners.

This is fun

Interesting that the majority of that chat seems to be on china. I guess its a more interesting subject than the OT – a personal disagreement.

WGF were budget plastics. Lesser quality but cheaper than the others.

Seems to me that it would be very hard to complete without moving to china or similar in this respect.

I don't think a public letter such as this is ever a wise move. I cannot see it chainging anything, other than to ensure a lot of people like my self who were never prevy to the issues till now, will not buy from the company.

Which may have been the intention of the letter all along. But I think the author needs to be a bit careful of possible legal ramifications. I know here, in the UK, some of the statements would have been actionable in court.

Obviously there is alot more to this story and the gaming community loves a scandle of one form or another. So I await the next installment..

This "open letter" is a public "pop" at the chinese involved and the American who has benfitted.

Whatever the ins-and-outs of the internal politics, this "open letter" is unprofessional, bitter and inflamatory.

Saying Tony is a good old boy is irrelevant. He sold his stake in the business as the business model was in trouble, for whatever reason.

So between him and the others involved, it went wrong. Calling people scumbags, swearing, and the implicit "done over by the chinese" under-current add to the bad taste.

This Tony guy seems a bit unhinged to me, if anyone knows him personally, I suggest you make contact quickly, as he appears to be on the verge of a nervous breakdown born from bitterness.

You dont need to be "Language Captain" to address people by their names, that is what most people call politeness and manners.

Seconded and people who cannot identify what they are taking about are not making much of a point (if I have guess what you are trying to say, too easy to get it wrong).

You dont need to be "Language Captain" to address people by their names, that is what most people call politeness and manners.

Thank you for the lesson. Much needed. Would you like one on grammar in return? That's pretty handy in communicating as well. Perhaps not and we could just stick to the discussion?

China does miniatures bigger/better and they have a long history with them, they just make them life size and from terracotta ;-)

America is a great country, the only problem it has is all those Americans in it, without them it would be perfect! ;-)

Every country/region has cultural differences that make working with them sometimes difficult, a language barrier makes things even worse. Take France (20 years ago) as an example, if you were outside of the major cities don't expect anything being open during lunch. If you expected them to work, people would look at you funny. And that is not even mentioning the wine drinking during the long lunch, that's only a few hundred miles from where I live. Now imagine the other side of the world.

Heck, even Americans have certain cultural 'quirks' that make Europeans uncomfortable or just sad. Things like being very nationalistic (although the French also do this very well), the obsession with guns, lack of proper eduction on things outside of the US, etc. To be honest I'm as 'scarred' to go to the US as I'm going to China, while China doesn't have the best track record, it is trying to change to be 'better'. The US is actually getting worse, things like the patriot act make a lot of us very nervous!

"I mean, BP poisons the Pacific but nobody is saying all British people are evil, polluting, money-grubbing, lax-safety-type who don't bat an eye when their employees die, jerks are we?"

And so you shouldn't. Despite the name, and despite the nice whitewash saving America's face and scapegoating us Brits, those directly involved/repsonsible for the disaster were actually Americans. It was a local franchise actually run by locals that made the mistakes that spilled the oil – few if any Brits were directly involved at all. If a Macdonalds franchise in London, run by Londoners, sold food and gave customers food poisoning, would Macdonalds HQ in America get the blame?

Furthermore, BP itself now has more American shareholders than British ones! So argueably "British" Petroleum is actually an American company now! So if you want to blame anyone you should be blaming your fellow Americans. But that would be a rather too uncomfortable truth wouldn't it? Far easier to blame scapegoats.

Blame us Brits? Blame BP's Head man who had little if anything to do with the actual disaster (whose only real flaw was he wasn't great at PR)? Personally I'm disgusted that the media has fallen for it and perpetuated such unbalanced and somewhat unfair nonsense.

Today's media clearly subscribe to the old adage: Never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

As for WF: Having actually read the whole thread I interpret things to read that Tony and his original team apparently HAVE been professional and incredibly patient, and for quite some time have attempted to settle matters quietly with those directly involved. But it is THEIR name being publicly tainted, not the Chinese and not this backstabber, THEIRS. So, as a last resort, first Tony and then the rest of the team have attempted to clear their names and explain matters with a public letter.

I can't blame them and feel for them. I hope matters go better in their next venture.

I wonder when Godwins law is going to kick in on this thread?

link

my vote is around the 310 mark

Mike Hobbs – I think that your betting on Godwins law is just the sort of thing … ooops… ;)

John T

"I mean, BP poisons the Pacific but nobody is saying all British people are evil, polluting, money-grubbing, lax-safety-type who don't bat an eye when their employees die, jerks are we?"

As for WF: Having actually read the whole thread I interpret things to read that Tony and his original team apparently HAVE been professional and incredibly patient, and for quite some time have attempted to settle matters quietly with those directly involved. But it is THEIR name being publicly tainted, not the Chinese and not this backstabber, THEIRS. So, as a last resort, first Tony and then the rest of the team have attempted to clear their names and explain matters with a public letter.

Personally I feel the points could have been made in a more tolerant way. I also see no advantage gained from the insulting comments made.

Regardless of how much money Mr Wai Kee Hui has, being vilified on a public forum is liable to raise his ire and turn it from a business matter to a personal matter. At that point you enter a world of hurt (and 'face' is an important matter in Asia).
link

I want more WSS
I aim to get Numidians

I hope WF survives

Just have to jump in on the BP comments!

It isn't fair to accuse BP the way several have been. The media decided to make it a national identity issue, when it wasn't. As I understand it, it was a subsidiary of Halliburton who have ultimately been found to be responsible (bypassing of safety procedures mostly). BP were still at fault for not monitoring the situation properly, but BP is not British Petroleum anymore, it's an internationally owned corporation with shareholders all over the world.

To be fair to the American media though, our own media weren't much better in their handling of it either.

As for WF, just seems like a total mess!

@Cold Warrior
Probably some of the best comments I've ever read on here (or anywhere else) on business. Thank you sir!

I've never done any business direct with China, but I have been saying for several years that a War with China is coming. No shots will be fired, no one will be killed directly and China will win!

They will do this simply by not letting the cargo boats leave and then watch as we crumble.

Unless 'the West' works out some degree of self sufficency soon, we are doomed as we will be nothing more than consumers, not producers.

I am a fan of WF. I disliked that they manufacture their stuff in China but I was pleased that they had a scheme for recycling the plastic sprues and used Triangle for packing.

I d feel that Tony should have published a less emotional and more to the point open letter that would've informed the world of the wrongs he felt had been done to him and still left the door open to negotiations with the new owners. It is a good rule of thumb to cool down before you hit send. Diplomacy was thrown out the window with this one and diplomacy is always important when bringing outsiders into your internal affairs.

Definition: "Diplomat – A person who has the ability to tell another person to go to hell and have them look forward to the trip."

Either way, I will not be buying anymore WF until the dust settles and I can determine whether or not its a company that I want to do business with.

Re that statement on the WF site – hope there aren't any dishonest customes out there, as they seem to be saying "we have no idea who ordered what or when or how they paid. If you've ordered something could you tell us please".

20th Maine,

I noticed that too. Never a good sign for a company to say it has totally lost control of its order book.

That will be a long and torturous exercise to resolve.

I'm pulling any business affiliations I have with WF (regarding Kaiju Kaos) until this immaturity is cleared up; I don't need to go down on someone else's ship.

I seem to recall ordering 1000 of everything. Send it to my work address please…

Who's George Sivy then?

CSotL

google disabled on your machine then ?

But this is interesting from way back when. Scroll down for Sivy

link

My question was rhetorical, implying that while Lonnie is alledged by Tony to be a scrote, George is an unknown quantity in this flame-war. But that link is indeed interesting. So he's the Chineses' operational guy. & a player in the injection plastic/gaming field, not just a suit put in to manage a PR crisis

Ref Libel in UK, truth is a defence, as is the current reputation of the guy you are libelling. Here is the basic intro to UK libel:

urban75.org/info/libel.html

The facts re WF have yet to come out, so why are we assuming all this stuff about the various players and stereotyping the characters?

I can see that Tony has been very hurt and feels done like a kipper. He clearly has tried to turn around his struggling brainchild in recent months and like others before him in other business sectors he has been the first casualty. Something has persuaded him to sign off his equity down to just 4.1%, and we dont know what it is. Presumably though, 4.1% is worth more than he would otherwise get if he didnt do it, or he wouldnt have agreed to it. Perhaps that shows just how the company was struggling financally. Time will tell.

Lonnie might just have been cutting his losses to avoid going down with the ship. If there's only one lifejacket, and that's in Chinese hands I can understand how a guy who is desperate to keep a job would do anything it takes. Its a bit of a balloon debate across oceans and cultures who gets the push – a bit of "pass the parcel" in a Belfast pub..who gets to open the final package….?

Finally the chinese actions & involvement might be personally gutting to Tony, but it might actually have the interests of the company at heart if the alternative is to shut up shop…… The fact that the Chinese are doing this suggests it wont be over for WF figures. Clearly the Chinese intend to still be sending stuff out in volume. Whether any new relases will be up to much remains to be seen. But give em six months and WF boxes will be back on the shelves again big time, I am sure.

I see WF as having been a great concept and with the owners having gone through a significant learning curve. Not only have the owners had to design figures and manage production/imports, but they have had to develop a whole new embrionic product category and build a market base from zilch. That takes time and money, and for many companies that means a few years of losses to ultimately reap rewards further along the Life Cycle.

There are too many here saying "great outfit, I hope they carry on, but of course they didnt produce the stuff I personally wanted". That probably says it all. Not enough people wanting to buy Zombies or Amazons etc etc. The WF line of minis is an interesting comparision with what else is on the market in plastics, and a sector that is becoming more competitive, not less.

The irony is that with the recent Dark Age stuff, and especially with the new WSS I think they actually got it exactly right. I oculd certainly see myself getting at least one Marlburian army from them.

If you are reading this Tony, pick yourself up and dust yourself off. You have talents that are in demand. Time for you to begin Wargames Factors, with the knowledge and experience you have gained you can take your loyal fan base and get back into the market with ranges that will sell in volume. They might have all just done you a favour, and sometimes things work out for the best despite our own best efforts or intentions. Franco-Prussian war anyone? Or how about Normans, Late Romans or Byzantines for your Ancient clientelle? Suplly can create demand…..!

AB emerged from Battle Honors, and have established a formidable reuptation in 15mm. No reason why you cant do the same. You dont have to keep to plastics; you dont have to work with those who you think to be total ar**hol*s

Tony – try not to take any of this takeover mess personally, its just Business. It will come home to them all eventually, and what goes around comes around. And in the long run Keynes had it right. Meanwhile, they might have done you a favour if the business is in bad shape. Start again and learn from your mistakes – we all do them.

I bet you could get a new range or two out before the label is dry on the new "green" WF packaging for WSS….. :o)

>>I want more WSS<<

My current aspiration is the 10 boxes I paid for 12 weeks ago…

May I just add that this is my first post on this thread.

I see a boycott is being organized on the WGF forums:

link

Seems like a good way for folks to vote with their feet (or wallets).

Bob in Edmonton

What a car crash their forums are!

There is now a response on the Wargamesfactory home page from George Sivy.

wargamesfactory.com

Anyone know if this has set any records? 18K+ hits and 300+ responses?