"RPE Miniatures for FASA's 1879 Kickstarter" Topic

Who makes the walls in the back round ??????

The terrain pieces are from Grendel

18 mm? Boo!

Good luck with the venture, though I must admit that I am sorry to see this as a kickstarter as I have no interest in the development of the phone app, RPG, etc. I was hoping you were just going to make some cool minis, which I think would sell without the 300,000K investment. I hope you are not biting too much off at one time.

Not setting your sights a bit high?

Thanks Renaak !!

Why I'm not investing in this one:

1) $325 USDK is a lot of money for VSF, a niche that's already nicely served by a number of popular rules sets from Space 1889 to GASLIGHT to Valor, Steel, and Flesh (to name just a few). Why should people pay you to re-invent the wheel, especially when you've set a huge base goal to pay for an entire product line at once? Start smaller, with a modest project to fund a core RPG book, or a small minis range. Prove yourselves before asking for almost a third of a million dollars.

2) Trying to play on the continuity of FASA's release history doesn't sit well with me at all. I vividly remember the screwjob of the company's sudden, unexpected closure, which came with zero warning to a large fanbase of players. Battletech and Shadowrun would still be dead if it weren't for the heroic efforts of Catalyst Labs. Vor and Crucible and Crimson Skies are dead, and probably aren't ever coming back. Why should I trust the new FASA not to repeat the sellout that destroyed the old one?

3) I wasn't real happy with anything Redbrick LLC did, especially toward the end of their run. The new FASA looks very much like a rebranding of Redbrick from the outside. Until I hear more details about how you took over their licenses, what you plan to do with them, and how many Redbrickers are now at FASA, I'm staying away from FASA products, old or new.

I'm sure many others will feel differently, but nostalgia for the good old days of the Traveller deck plans and Renegade Legion and Vor doesn't override the damage FASA's shocking shutdown dealt to my trust for the company or anyone claiming continuity with it.

These kickstarters are getting ridiculous. No interest in this stuff anyway. 300k, huh, maybe uh Trump and the Walmart family will help you out there…

I don't persé have an issue with the high amount of funds to be raised, I do have an issue with such a divergent number of projects it encompasses. A miniature game, a RPG, and an iPad app? Start a kickstarter for one of those, when that is successful and you've delivered those products, start another kickstarter, etc.

I think the iPad app looks absolutely horrible, not to mention there's very little (concept) art. The campaign feels amateurish for such a large goal.

Don't get me wrong FASA has a special little place in my heart, even when it did close down or stopped supporting Renegade Legion. But I honestly doubt that FASA will get anything close to $325 USDk for this project…

@79thPA we have already begun production of the miniature range, there will definitely be more on the way

18mm? pass

as said, build products apart. there may be synergies and cost advantages (artwork used across etc.)… but is that what the consumer wants? is the miniature gamer interested in the RPG? vice versa? or the app?

My order of preference is minis, rpg, app – and most of the cost will be the app. so there has to be a lot of support by app interested people for my need to be reached.

or i could support a straight minis game where 100% investment goes towards it.

I have seen some of the original 18mms and they are excellent. Whether or not the FASA game gets funded or even has a place in the market the miniatures will be welcomed by the segment of the hobby that games in 15/18mm. 25/28/30/31/32mm figures have vast Steampunk mini resources from a plethora of companies. Its great to see RPE jump in with smaller scale figures that look very much up to the Ral Partha standard. I really look forward to seeing this line get fleshed out and hope it does very well.
They will absolutely sit well in the Hive, Queen and Country Universe

Who is this company that calls itself FASA? That's my first question. If there's any link whatsoever to the old company, I'd like to know before I even remotely consider giving these people money.

I have seen some of the original 18mms and they are excellent. Whether or not the FASA game gets funded or even has a place in the market the miniatures will be welcomed by the segment of the hobby that games in 15/18mm.

Oh sure, the minis look terrific. Not arguing that, it's just – well, everything else about this project that concerns me.

Who is this company that calls itself FASA? That's my first question. If there's any link whatsoever to the old company, I'd like to know before I even remotely consider giving these people money.

From the KS page:

Since 1980, FASA Corporation has consistently created great game lines with all of the supporting products that you have come to expect. Best known for BattleTech and Shadowrun, our game lines include our originals: Earthdawn, Renegade Legion, Crimson Skies, Vor, and Crucible, and our licensed lines: Star Trek, Doctor Who, and Traveller. Along the way there were many other games: Behind Enemy Lines, Top Gun, Battlestar Galactica, Combots and Grav Ball, to name a few.

My name is Ross Babcock and I have been here the whole way. I am going to make sure that 1879 meets the FASA standard. Being one of the creators, designers, writers, developers and having been involved with all of FASA's games and lines I know what it takes. Our new team includes all of the experienced writers, artists, sculptors, developers, and staff that it takes to do the job.

Make of that what you will. I've been following the Redbrick-becomes-FASA thing as best I can, but there just aren't many details avaialble. Lots of rumor, little hard fact as to why they rebranded.

Hi all,

The FASA thing is complex (sorry about that), but hopefully these pages give you a breakdown of how things clip together.

1879.fasagames.com/about.html

… or …

fasagames.com/about.html

General summary: FASA Corporation is the head entity; FASA Games, Ral Partha, and FASA Digital are the publishing, miniatures, and electronic product "branches" (respectively).

The Kickstarter and 1879 game line is a FASA Corporation-driven initiative, with each "branch" ultimately responsible for their own areas. Collectively, we all answer to FASA Corporation.

Hope this helps, but if you have any questions, please feel free to post them and I'll see what I can do to answer them for you.

Kind regards,

James Sutton
President, CEO
FASA Games, Inc.
fasagames.com

So what IP rights does FASA Corporation retain from the old days, and which ones went to WizKids or (as with Vor) back their creators? Are we going to see Battletech or Shadowrun return to the FASA imprint? Renegade Legion? Crucible? Crimson Skies? Or are some or all of those IPs controlled by other parties?

Pretty sure the IP for Battletech isn't going anywhere, as that is owned by Topps, with Catalyst as a subcontractor/licensee.

Damon.

There's still a lot of complexity around licensing the older game properties, Rich. We've been asked about getting "some of the old games" back on deck again and we are working through these complexities. But it takes time to sort through the legal quagmire. Unfortunately, this is the nature-of-the-beast when companies stop operations -- even temporarily.

Damon, that's correct. Battletech and Shadowrun are owned by Topps and licensed to Catalyst Game Labs. There are no changes to that status that I'm aware of (nor should there be).

Okay, question time: Ral Partha Europe is a subsidary of FASA which is a US company. So why can't we get RPE minis here in the States? (I'm aiming at the Demonworld Minis stuff here but other stuff applies)

Short answer: You can, SCAdian. For Demonworld, at least.

link

Long answer: We're still building up our "local" US stocks. As with all things, it's subject to demand, however – which is slowly growing. We get our minis in direct from Ral Partha. The shipping times from order have so far proved to be quick (less than a week, in many cases).

Longer answer: And to clarify further, FASA Games' license only extends to those game lines that we work with. Demonworld and 1879, at this time. So "the other" RPE miniatures are exclusive to Ral Partha at this time.

Thank you.
For some reason I never thought to look for Fasa before today.
Honestly, I thought y'all were dead and buried as a company.
Redbrick did you no favors, but I'll try y'all.

Not a problem and completely understandable. There has been a LOT of change going on over the last 12-18 months (understatement of the year).

18mm? No thanks.

Went to the KS page again and really looked at it.
A: $325,000 USD? Really? Y'all are based in the US right? Cause right now I'm thinking you're in Colorado and taking advantage of their latest vote.

B: Couldn't y'all afford to pay for Jeff's better work?

C: Where's everyone getting 18mm from? The KS page says it's 15mm…

D: $325,000 USD? Really? (It deserved saying twice.)

I wouldn't touch this with a 10-foot pole.

First, it sure looks like a ripoff of Aerolyth Enterprises' Hive, Queen and Country – alternate history Victorian SF with giant bugs. The bug drawing on the Kickstarter page is so similar to the Rachael Mayo art in HQC that I thought it was a Rachael Mayo work.

Second, this isn't really a presale – its a funding vehicle to transfer the risk of product development from the enterprise to the customer. That's venture capital money, and I expect a better reward for that level of risk than a copy of an (expensive) game. Software projects are notorious for going over budget (30 years in professional software development has taught me that), so what happens when they burn through their $350,000 USD and don't have a deliverable product?

So, we'd be able to buy the minis from RPE and not have to have anything to do with the FASA KS?

The The Third makes some good points. In fact FYI to all KS wannabees stop charging out the wazoo for next to nothing for your untried products. There are some ridiculous KS projects out now. There is one where if you pledge each female figure, whats its about, will cost you over $20 USD a piece! No really incentives either. I can go to CMON right now and buy female figs for less than that. Just what are you doing for me?

Another point, keep your art, t-shirts and other BS the customer wants hardcore materials, games and miniatures primarily. Last thing I need is another t-shirt that doesnt fit.

Sorry just getting real. I've been involved in some really cool KS projects and I seen a lot I wouldnt touch with a ten foot pole and ask, just what the hell are you thinking? You have no industry name, no industry sculptors and I'm supposed to give you twenty bucks a fig. Really? Really…

I too am a bit taken aback at the scope and goals set for the project, but full marks to James for showing up here.

It's my pleasure. I heard that they make an awesome cuppa tea around here. :)

The scope doesn't bother me. Everyone saw Reaper collect ten times that. But there are reasons that they did and you won't. Reaper offered value for money. Reaper was expanding a proven product line. You folks are charging more than retail (or slightly less than *very silly* retail) for vaporware. And that digital image is embarrassing.

Thank you for the information. I'll be giving this one some thought. As an old Battletech guy, I figure Babcock hasn't done me wrong yet.

As far as Reaper is concerned… well, they sorta created a situation where gamers fed on their own personal enthusiasm and Reaper's own potential, and it all became a feeding frenzy. For what they offered in return for what they're pulling in, and what those new lines will do for their company… it was just plain huge for everybody involved. The only way we see that again, at least in our hobby, is for Reaper to do another next summer.

Reaper was asking for only $30 USDK for Bones – a realistic figure for the limited number of figures they originally intended to add to the range. The massive overfunding was the result of backer confidence and enthusiasm in the mounting pledge goals.

Reaper has a better track record for producing product. Plus they mostly took metal figures and were converting them to plastic. Only later did future sculpts get added as a bonus, though with Reaper those figs had to be in the pipeline regardless.

I'm a 28mm VSF guy, so no interest in this project. I see this one as dead in the water.

BTW IIRC Microsoft still owns the Crimson Skies rights.

I'm surprised at the vigor of disappointment from the 28 mm folks
Us 15mm folks have a fraction of the figures available in the larger scale

It's nice to see 15s get more vsf variety

Terry

I don't see it dead because it's 15/18mm. I see it dead because it's gotten a lot negative vibes on other forums as well. Reaper had the opposite buzz. Buzz can make or kill a project.

BTW I do 15mm WWII, pirates, fantasy, ACW. :-)

Anyone know if Fasa products available thru Alliance Distributors?

FASA Games uses Studio 2 Publishing for fulfillment (for game books).

Okay, How do they get their minis to a LGS?

Minis are only available from the FASA Games or Ral Partha Europe online stores.

Is that a temporary thing, or are you avoiding (for ex) Alliance and ACD for some reason? Direct sales are better profit, but you'll never establish a retail presence in the US without the distributors.

Reaper was asking for only $30 USD USDK for Bones – a realistic figure for the limited number of figures they originally intended to add to the range. The massive overfunding was the result of backer confidence and enthusiasm in the mounting pledge goals.

Well.. Reaper did prepare stretch goals all the way up to $4 USD million in advance, you don't do that with no confidence of ever reaching that number. $30 USDk was a taste of the actual number they wanted (or maybe needed), you see this happening a lot on kickstarter, folks setting the goal low. A low goal is more easily reached and gives folks confidence when it is reached. Reaper also did a solid job on preparation, marketing, keeping folks updated, providing info and imagery, proper stretch goals and a lot of bang for the buck. If Reaper did the same thing FASA is now doing I would expect a lot less interest in the Bones KS. Reaper has/had consumer confidence and did a good job with the KS, FASA lacks that consumer confidence due to their pas and they did a horrible job with the KS.

I'm not trying to bash FASA, still have almost all their Battletech, Earthdawn, Shadowrun, VOR, Renegade Legion, etc. games/books. But the old FASA had style, I still have their old full color catalogs that got me excited in new and old products alike. Creating wish lists of the next products I could buy. The 1897 website and KS page are just completely underwhelming, information is sparce, just like quality art. imho shut the KS down and try again when you've got all your ducks in a row, because after three days you've only reached $2,190 USD, that's 2/3 of a single percent…

I've looked very, very good at the KS and the website, even the RPE webstore, and can't find any mention of how many miniatures there are in a single unit pack! That's quite essential information when you want folks to buy your product.

That's kind of the point I was trying to make. Reaper's Bones Kickstarter was a "perfect storm" and it paid off big time for them for because of multiple factors, from advanced planning to consumer confidence to sheer enthusiasm. It's unscientific, but you can often get an inkling of where a KS is going to wind up just by looking at the number and type of comments, especially those in response to updates. If the backers are talking a lot and sound excited, it feeds an effect that can easily snowball even on the most peculiar of projects – look at Low Life for an example. The projects that fail tend to be silent ones, with nothing much being talked about by either the backers or the creators.

FASA's still below 1% funding ATM, and I don't see and comments at all. Were I them, I'd be reconsidering my approach. This might still be salvageable, they've got plenty of time yet, but it isn't working well so far.

I'm sorry, but based on FASA's history, I have to predict that this is all going to end in tears.

I hope I'm wrong, but after what happened the last time (employee's literally walking into the office to find out they no longer have a job), I have no great confidence in this.

Looks like they made the same mistake RAFM did, by WAY overreaching on the scope.

Another point is that there's already a LOT of 15mm/18mm/(1/100?) historicals.

This means that the best option is probably to concentrate on the ahistorical elements in the IP. Go ahead and tell people to source line troops from whereever (since they're likely to do that anyway), but make it so that you have the unique stuff to buy. Whether that's Prussianesque cavalrymen on Terror Birds or Atlantean Crystaltech field guns, make the stuff that sets your universe apart early in the process, then you can add the mundane items if/as necessary.

RAFM asked for $18,890.00 USD not $325,000.00 USD. We polled our customer base to see what they wanted and attempted to bring those products to the market. We were offering 28mm figures from a proven figure line and we are a proven company that has been in business for over 35 years. I don't mind being called insane but how can you even put these programs in the same category of insanity? We even offered a subscription of 40% off of retail price for a whole year, off any miniatures in our extensive line, and still no takers. How insane do we have to get?
So what is the scope for VSF minis then?
We reached less than $2,000.00 USD in our Indiegogo program. FASA has reached just over $2,300.00 USD So the scope for sales in this market is about $2,000 USD???? For $2,000 USD we can produce about 2 to 3 miniatures at best. Which is what we have done, see our website for our newest VSF releases.

meh