"Hobby Armor Depot Open for Business" Topic

Any customer testimonials on the products offered here?

w.

Home page says AmEx money orders and personal checks only. Catalog page has a PayPal logo, but no info.

PayPal -- yes or no?

AFAD took $2,000 USD off me in 2003, and I never saw a thing. Crooks.
Do a search in the archives for lots of consumer fraud stories.
M

PayPal is being worked on – that was a mistake.

As for testimonials, yes do a search – for every person that has a complaint there has been more that have not had one. They have had many problems with overseas shipments. If you are interested in trying – try a small order. The products are not museum quality, but they paint up real nice for wargaming.

What do you mean "they have had many problems with overseas shipments"? They took my money (transfered from a NYC branch of Citibank), they gave me tracking numbers for which there was no record etc. etc. etc. Are you saying that they have had bad luck? Don't understand how to write an address? What is the nature of the problems they have been having? (other than bank the money, not send any product and not return emails after the money is transferred?)

I'm sorry Dances with Emutants, but this is a corrupt company to deal with -not only from the consumer perspective, but also because it has come to pass that they have no respect for the other companys' IP.

I have no idea what happened with Phovsho, but my experience with this company at the beginning of the year was quite good. Not perfect, they took a while for them to cast up what I wanted but I got everything I asked for with some extra stuff. It's true the vehicles are not museum quality but painted up well, work quite fine for gaming

Will have to echo phovsho's sentiments, AFAD was a corrupt company (although I lost nowhere near the amount he did).

The fact they have resurrected in another form, without having taken care of the customers they have ripped off, should only be a further testiment to their dishonesty.

On top of all of this (as if there needed to be another reason to avoid them), is the issue of pirating others work, and this has been documented previously. Given TMP's new "no tolerance" policy on piracy, I am suprised they were even allowed to post an ad here.

Too many issues in the past for anyone to ever risk throwing their money AFAD's (or Hobby Armor Depot's) way.

YMMV….

Paul

Cedar Park, Texas…. Maybe somebody from LSHM Austin would know what's up.

Dave or any other guys from Austin, any comments?

The quality of the vehicles, and terrain appears suspect…

There appear to be some definate oppinions as to the moral integrity of the company…

My advice? Take care regarding all the facts, I was sure I'd been wronged by a company, and I 'went-off' about it on TMP… and, well, guess what? I was wrong, and I posted a public appology… a humbling experience, and I earned a 'stifle'!

Dances with Emutants wrote:

"As for testimonials, yes do a search – for every person that has a complaint there has been more that have not had one."

Funny, I just dug through all the AFAD threads, and the results were far more complaints than positive experiences. Also, many of those positive comments were from you, the same person who posted the news story today about "Hobby Armor Depot", a bit strange you were defending AFAD before yet never mentioned your affiliation with them….

Anyone doing a search on AFAD will also dig up the threads with them being asked to not attend certain cons due to piracy concerns, and further information regarding said piracy.

If all of the above is not enough to keep you away from this company, then have at it, I merely want to ensure that just because they have resurrected under another name, they don't slip by the radar of anyone unaware of their past reputation.

TMP is an excellent site for customer feedback. Do a search on the company and see how many threads there have been, and what the overall tone has been. If you even suspect there may be issues, go further and contact the BBB.

I generally figure that where there's smoke, there's fire. I've been burned by another company and found I was not alone (do a search on New Wave and you will see for yourself).

The overall opinions on AFAD appear to be negative. Even if half the posts are compliments, that still means you have a 50% chance of being dissatisfied. That is WAY too much in my opinion.

Conversely, do a search on Brigade Games, or The War Store (to pick only two excellent online stores that come to mind) and you will find dozens if not hundreds of posts about their terrific service. Fast and accurate shipments, and on the rare occasion when something might have been amiss, it gets cleared up quickly. You would be hard pressed to find a single complaint here on TMP.

So while I have never done business with AFAD, I was interested in getting some inexpensive 28mm vehicles, and did the searches I mentioned above. I have decided they are far too much of a risk to bother with. Their reputation preceeds them, and in this case, that's enough to warrant a pass from my wallet. But that's just me.

YMMV

They were caught with pirated 20mm Britannia WWII figures years ago at a HMGS East convention (Fall-In in Baltimore I believe)by the former Britannia rep. here in the States. Maybe the owner of Britannia can shed more light into this one. The figures were in resin, but the Britannia line is in metal. He was in turn contacted by a few overseas companies that had found out AFAD had some of their vehicles in the line that they were selling.

Given TMP's new "no tolerance" policy on piracy…

It's not a new policy, just a restatement of a long-existing policy.

…I am surprised they were even allowed to post an ad here.

It's not an ad, it's an announcement.

Buy stuff from these guys at your own risk… and that's a HUGE risk.

A company's name/brand is a very valuable asset. Say "Perry" and everyone has a great response. Say "AFAD" and the associations are bitter for most. Generally companies change their names when they have a bad reputation. Wonder why AFAD has decided to change theirs.

AFAD, aye???

Well here's my experience:

The man I dealt with on the phone, Joe Conejo, was always very nice to me on the phone, but whenever I would ask him why it was taking so long to get the order, he kept giving me excuses for delays in shipments – many had to do with a relatives recent hospitalization – which I have no reason to disbelieve, which is what he told me.

But finally, with many apologies, they then send me a lot of badly deformed resin copies, full of bubbles and finger prints, of esci or roco minitanks vehicles, using regular hardware store type "iron nails" for gun barrels, picture that – I was both embarrassed and angered at the crap they sent me; (but they DID give me a lot of free stuff too, probably to compensate me for the delay, and I guess for the very schlocky job they did) – I will be able to use them, I guess, after a lot of major re-working, but I'll never deal with them ever again –

ALL PROSPECTIVE BUYERS/WARGAMERS PLEASE BEWARE!!!

Back when I was making 1:48 molds for people to have crew figures I was looking at buying from them; I too was warned off about them and decided to order from Imprint

Eventually the owner of AFAD called me to explain- he told me that they use recast 1:48 model kits that they convert. He said he was interested in having some crew figures and I replied that I would sculpt original models but wouldnt work with recasts. They said they would send me some samples so I could judge for myself.

Samples never actually arrived and I counted myself lucky to have not sent any money their way either.

I guess the question now is what with the:

"Can I sell recasts here?
No. "

in the FAQ, will the FAQ be changed or will recast model kits be added to the list?

I can't act on hearsay.

????? ah I see. Well he told me- wonder why he wont tell you?

It's a convenient name change-- now when somebody gets ripped off they can proudly say, "I've been H.A.D.!"

Sorry, I couldn't resist. 8)=

So the FAQ will read :

Can I sell recasts here?
Only if Bill never finds out personally

This is a small hobby and when you sit idly by and allow so many customers to go dissatisfied a revolt is bound to happen. AT one time Uniformaology had some problems but they came clean and corrected the mess. They now have people doing business with them again.

I think AFAD should correct all the wrongs just like Sears would. If Sears sells you something defective, they take it back and make sure you are happy.

AFAD should not hide anymore and come clean to the Forum because they are losing lots of business. Their product has been cleaned up and looks to be at a higher standard. I have seen some pics.

Joe has too many loose ends. Like the guys who says he owes him $2,000. USD That is a lot of money. I wouldn't send anyone $2,000 USD just like that. I would send $300-$400 at a time until I have everything I need. Sounds mysterious.

Joe and his partner should come on and speak out. Otherwise they are going to be hit hard on all gaming and miniature forums because there are TMPers all over.

If the partner has any brain at all he will tell Joe to make good on all the problems in an open forum so everyone can see that they are above board.

All retailers and sculptors come on here and clean up their mess when it needs to be done. I don't know if Bob Ladd has but I think so because the gamer never came on before Fall In to complain about it so they probably kissed and made up.

Joe doesn't realize how powerful the Internet is nowadays and if you Google AFAD you will get a lot of negative reviews that can't be good. I know Joe from Florida and others that know him who are on the up and up and we have never gotten burned by him. Quite the opposite. We have gotten lots of deals from him albeit some rough castings for sure.

About the piracy, well, that has never been proven. I personally don't know enough about copyright laws to figure it out and I don't recognize anything he sells as being something from someone else.

I wish him well and hope he straightens things out with those who he has had problems with in the hobby.

So if you asked him if he used recast model tanks for his models he would say no? Then I have no idea why he called me- and no idea why HE would say it to me- but the point seems moot anyway I guess.

Imprint makes some fine vehicles ;)

oh- 'cept to say sorry to Bill- My OCD gets going and I get worked up more than I should on small issues- no excuse I know.

I should be clear that the convo with Joe wasnt hostile at all- At the time I told him that I too was aware that there was some debate as to if converting then recasting was in fact breaking copyright- however later research proved that all derivations of a copyright material remain with the owner- so it is in fact illegal.

If TMP was going to make a stand like they claimed then it sure seems off to a bad start.

I can understand Bill not wanting to act without proof but I am uncertain how you will ever have proof of a recaster for moderns and historicals then- Hell with my RTV I could LITERALLY have a 'full range' of 1/72 scale moderns for sale by this Monday that would be just as 'legal'- so how is the new policy helpful?

This discussion is a good example of the difficulties of establishing and enforcing an anti-piracy policy.

I can understand Bill not wanting to act without proof but I am uncertain how you will ever have proof of a recaster for moderns and historicals then…

Seems like it would be simple – does anyone have a photo of an AFAD model, and a photo of the model which it is suspected to be recast from?

Bill, I suggest you contact one of the officers of HMGS east. They can confirm any issue since it happened at an HMGS East convention and the company in question was banned from attending any future conventions.

…Eventually the owner of AFAD called me to explain- he told me that they use recast 1:48 model kits that they convert…

That seems pretty conclusive. On that basis, I won't allow any further publicity for HAD.

…Eventually the owner of AFAD called me to explain- he told me that they use recast 1:48 model kits that they convert…
<q/>

That seems pretty conclusive. On that basis, I won't allow any further publicity for HAD

If you act on this alone, isn't it tsking one person's word over another?

Shouldn't you contact Joe and get an explanation?

Someone could go on antoher forum tomorrow and say Bill sells recasts and you done , right?

You have stated your position on the issue but should you condemn the man without a fair trial?

HAHA! What a mess that is up there.

Combatpainter

Let me explain my mysterious situation. I was relocating from NYC to NZ. I was considering starting a wargaming store and was looking for affordable wargame quality vehicles to go with the growing range of 28mm figures. I got offered a bulk deal from AFAD, took it and got burned. That simple.

If you look at my other posts you will see that, whilst I have an opinion on what rules and figures I like. And yes, I make relative comments comparing one manufacturer against another e.g I prefer x range over y because… I don't slam folks/companies though about their service or integrity (though I often acknowledge good service). Other than AFAD.

I think you will find the same is true about the other people who have been burned and made comment on this site. I have no reason to pick on these guys randomly. I don't know them at all, though I did speak to one of the brothers by phone and got a terrible story about a brother who was in hospital and fighting for his life. Again, at that time I sent my sympathies.

The balance of probabilities in this case is "beyond reasonable doubt".

Mr Editor, perhaps you want to undertake a mystery shop for yourself.

Murray

Personally I've been burnt but it was only for $160.00 AUD so bitter lesson learnt. However, to address both Emutant (defender of AFAD and HAD) and the complainers this would almost seem to be crying out for a poll? Have you had a dealing with AFAD of payment and no delivery or something similar? Would it clear the air a little?

Phovsho,

Like I said, they should make good with all the customers they have had problems with in their dealings. This is upmost priority but for some reason they want to dunk their head in the sand and hope everything will go away. It isn't going to be that way for them. It would cost them a bit to get things right but then they could start fresh(maybe) depending on the outcome of the piracy thing but all in all it doesn't look good in my view. I know they are running the business with low/non-exist ant overhead from home so I guess they figure if they can keep the few customers they have left it is enough. I imagine they are not out there to rule the world. But like I have told Joe in the past the hobby is too small to let negative dealings go unresolved.

Good luck to all.

"for every person that has a complaint there has been more that have not had one"

That shining praise alone has scared me off : )

I was never really concerned about their business practices, as every time I looked at their stuff at their booth (before they were banned from HMGS cons) I found it of such awful quality that I couldn't bring myself to but it. No matter how much I needed it. Now with the proliferation of fantastic 1/56 and 1/48 stuff out there I would guess HAD will have a tough row to hoe considering their bad reputation.

You guys are the best!

A few weeks ago I started for the first time to search for 28mm WWII vehicles. Online I found the regular manufactures like Bolt Action, AGNM, etc. Then I found a link for AFAD. Their range was huge and prices were pretty good. The examples on painted vehicles didn't look excellent, but good enough for gaming purposes.

So I decided to email them to get shipping rates to Australia. My suspicions were first aroused when they needed a CITY to ship to in Australia… right. I know enough about international shipping that air mail doesn't need to have a particular city. Hell – I'll post the full correspondence to illustrate that you can gain enough from pre-order chats to guess if an unknown (to you at least) manufacture is worth dealing with or not:

>10th November
>Subject: Shipping to Australia
>Hi,
>Just have a question on shipping rates to Australia. Both for one and several
>vehicles.
>thanks,
>gruenherz [I used my real name throughout, but deleted for here]

>10th November
>Subject: Shipping to Australia
>SEND LIST OF WHAT YOU NEED
>I'LL CHECK WITH THE POST
>OFFICE AND HOW MUCH FOR
>SHIPPING COST.
>ENJY YOUR WAR GAMING
>JC

>10th November.
>Subject: Re: Shipping to Australia
>Hi,
>Haven't decided what exactly I'm after yet. More looking at what postage (roughly) >would be if I ordered 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5 of the following:
>50 PzKw 222 Armored Car
>54-a PzKw 38T Marder II w/ 76mm ATG
>70 StuG III G w/ 75mm
>160 M4 Sherman
>Thanks,
>gruenherz

>10th November.
>Subject: Re: Shipping to Australia
>THIS WILL GO AIRMAIL TAKES 10 or 15 days.
>
>I NEED A CITY WHERE IT WILL BE SHIP TOO.
>
>JC

>10th November 10
>Subject: Re: Shipping to Australia
>
>I'm in Australia.

>10th November 10
>Subject: Re: Shipping to Australia
>NEED ADDRESS PLEASE

>10th November.
>Subject: Re: Shipping to Australia
>Oh okay,
>Melbourne, in the state of Victoria.
>Thanks,
>gruenherz

[Then it all went silent, until I got this:]

>21st November.
>Subject: PAYPAL WILL OPEN
>IN TWO DAYS

[I should point out I didn't read the subject heading, just the sender as they FINALLY sent a reply]

22nd November.
Subject: Re: PAYPAL WILL OPEN
>Hi,
>I'm sorry – but I have no idea what your reply is related to. What
>will happen in two days? I was after the rates to send 1, 2, 3, 4 or
>maybe even 5 vehicles from your catalogue. The vehicles interested are
>listed below, I'm just after rough shipping rates.
>
>Regards,
>gruenherz

[At this point I decided to go back to the AFAD page I had book-marked, alas – it wasn't being hosted anymore. Hmmm, "dodgy pr*cks" is going off in my mind. I decide to Google for the new page, and this is how I find this page. Well – I'm not going to wait for a reply – as stated above, if there's smoke there's fire. I, ON NO ACTUAL EXPERIENCE OF PRODUCT, would advise against dealing with these guys. That is something that happens very rarely for me.]

[Update – while posting all of this I decide to reply again, without waiting for a reply]

>22nd November.
>Subject: Re: PAYPAL WILL OPEN
>Okay, I understand now: you've combined the Subject Heading with what
>you're trying to convey to potential customers.
>
>I went back to check your website, but it seems to have disappeared.
>Thankfully TMP was able to tell me that you guys have changed your
>name. What's the new website? It might be a good idea to have kept the
>old website active and redirected old customers to your new website,
>if one exists.
>
>Or are you trying to avoid that? I think it's because your reputation
>proceeds you, while on TMP I also found A LOT of negative feedback on
>your products and service.
>
>No need to reply, I'd prefer to avoid doing business with you.
>
>Regards,
>gruenherz
>
>PS – you can tell me now that you think "our wedding sounded cheap,
>nasty and tacky anyway, so we only ever considered you time wasters.
>Our marquees are for upper class clients which unfortunately you are
>not. Why don't you stay within your class level and buy something from
>payless plastics instead. Kindest Regards, Katrina."

[I'm sorry if this post is a bit long, I think that manufactures like these need to be chased out of town.]

I ordered from them once about 5 years ago, I think right after seeing some of their models at MillenniumCon in Austin. I sent an email order, got a reply that it was received, but nothing happened. I called about two weeks later, and re-placed the order. To put it concisely, the person that took my order was polite but strange. The order arrived about a week later. The quality of the models was fair to poor, but what I expected since I had seen examples as I stated previously. I felt the price was right and I got what I paid for, but the whole experience was so marginal I have not done further business with them.