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The Beast Rampant29 Apr 2016 7:10 a.m. PST

Weird, eye-catching cover!

Personal logo ColCampbell Supporting Member of TMP29 Apr 2016 7:25 a.m. PST

Like the cover!

Jim

Terrement29 Apr 2016 8:17 a.m. PST

Like the cover, like the concept. I'll wait for some AARs though before purchasing.

JJ

zippyfusenet29 Apr 2016 9:20 a.m. PST

There was a very thorough AAR of this game being played at an Oz convention just a couple weeks ago. There's a video of close combat play on the Wargame Vault More Info page.

This is right up my alley. I *like* the concept of fighting for 'honor', rather than paying warriors in furs, which seems hokey to me for tribal warfare.

Anyway, for a sawbuck, I'm in. I'll report back how this works for Aztecs.

SBminisguy29 Apr 2016 10:32 a.m. PST

Interesting dice less mechanism!

Kent Reuber Supporting Member of TMP29 Apr 2016 10:40 a.m. PST

I've always thought it would be cool to have a system for tribal conflicts between native American tribes and "counting coup".

I found an interesting tidbit in the "counting coup" wikipedia article: "Joe Medicine Crow (1913-2016) is credited with achieving the feat [counting coup while remaining uninjured] while serving with the US Army during World War 2, as on one occasion he overpowered and disarmed a German soldier, and later stole horses from a SS unit."

Kent Reuber Supporting Member of TMP29 Apr 2016 10:45 a.m. PST

I'd be interested to know how figures need to be based, how many figures are needed for a typical scenario, and what size table is required.

Terrement29 Apr 2016 12:31 p.m. PST

@ zippyfusenet

Thanks, guy!

kallman29 Apr 2016 1:49 p.m. PST

Sounds like a game I can get into. As soon as I can get home I will place an order.

hongihika29 Apr 2016 3:57 p.m. PST

Oh wow! I didn't realise Wargames Vault would promote this. It's a bit daunting seeing our rules promoted for sale on TMP!

@Kent Reuber – Counting coup is a fascinating element of native american combat which we thought could fit in quite well with the honour system of Tribal. For me, the oral traditions of maoritanga (maori cultural-knowledge) tended to focus on the heroic deeds of protaganists, rather than actual military outcomes. In many ways, the losers of battles could be just as honoured as winners, for their deeds – through song, myth and legend.
In terms of counting coup, my co-writer seemed to think it was formalised to the point of the Aztec flower-wars, where non-lethal strikes gained a warrior honour/captives. If so, I think it would require a specific scenario in itself. On the other hand, I like to think that counting coup would take place in the normal combat of a battle – whereby observers would note specific eg's of superior skill and courage by individual warriors.

Basing: we use individual 25mm circular bases. Our heroes/leaders use the 40mm bases from warbases to show the number of wounds left to them (you could use dice markers to the side as well). link
We would like to keep scale and basing open to players, to allow them to play from their own collections/interests, as long as basing is consistent there shouldn't be much problem (friends have played with 15mm border-reivers through to 40mm fantasy).

Numbers of figures: there are typically 2-3 heroes/leader, and 2-3 units of five warriors. Force size is dependant on how much honour a player wants to spend in specific scenarios – units and special skills/weapons are bought with honour. So, a player can spend up big on a large force, but that leaves them little honour for the battle itself. Honour can be lost during the game, and when a player has no honour left in their pool, it's game over!

Table: usually 3 foot by 3 foot, with LOTS of scenery on it.

@Terrement – AAR would be great, have just come back from Salute where we demo'ed the game and had a lengthy run-through of the game at the end of the day. I'll try and write something up for it soon. I think there's still a couple of things that could be improved in the game.
1) the cards, placing them next to units for activation on a table full of terrain can be… problematic. We're thinking of having unit markers corresponding to a marked card-holder (like a scrabble tile holder) which can be placed on the edge of the table.
2) playing cards in combat is certainly a major/fun part of the game. However, it can tend to dominate the game, to the detriment of the tactical elements of the overall skirmish combat. eg. I'm guilty of just rushing in units so I can have fun playing with the cards. The scenarios are essential in getting the players to play to a tactical set of objectives – thus, scenario design will be a major focus of our efforts.

@the beast rampant – the cover is of a maori warrior. The moko(tattoo)on his face is based on that of a Ngapuhi ancestor of mine. Moko tell a story about a person, their genealogy/skills/social-standing, and were chiselled in – thus the scarification/grooves in his skin.

Overall I'm really glad to see peoples' interest in this. I'd hoped to share my own maori cultural heritage with people, and I'd love to learn more about other ancient cultural traditions pertaining to warfare and combat. In the short-term, I'd like to setup a forum for players to share their own knowledge, their suggestions for rules and scenarios. On our FB page, I've already been discussing possible rules for muskets in the 19thC NZ Wars (probably needs further testing). One of the things I've noticed with these rules is that there are all sorts of fun ways you can play around with the card-play mechanics to reflect elements of specific cultural backgrounds.

In the meantime, have fun playing our game! Cheers.

The Beast Rampant29 Apr 2016 6:22 p.m. PST

@the beast rampant – the cover is of a maori warrior.

Yes, I recognized the tattooing. I just meant the close-up with the tattoos, facial expression, and black background are quite evocative and intriguing- so, 'weird' in that way!

This is all very interesting. Thank you for sharing the rules details, as well as your cultural associations with them. I plan on picking up the PDF within the next month.

Henry Martini29 Apr 2016 6:48 p.m. PST

Considering where you're based it seems reasonable to ask: does it cover Australian Aborigines?

hongihika29 Apr 2016 8:42 p.m. PST

@the beast rampant – glad the cover grabbed your attention, I hoped it would be 'eye-catching'. ;)

@Henry Martini – I'm working on Nic to do some 28mm Aus Aboriginal warriors, trying to tie them into an idea of a nomadic denisovan-type. I think, at a very basic level, Tribal would work for a Koori setting… i.e honour or 'utu' has the same social utility as 'payback'; social groupings of clans and nations have parallels with tribes; clubs/boomerangs/spears/throwers could work for short/long/missile weapons. However, I also think that Aus aboriginal warfare needs a better/deeper understanding of the social and cultural complexities in combat and warfare – i.e were there really 'chiefs' or heroes in clans/nations?; clan elders were important in determining causes/outcomes of battles; magic was a central element to combat. Short answer – Tribal provides a good foundation, but I think there is definitely scope to 'flesh out' specific rules for indigenous Australian warfare.

Ivan DBA29 Apr 2016 9:29 p.m. PST

Awesome cover, great concept. And the basing matches up nicely with how my group has based our SAGA figures (1" circles, with larger bases for the Warlord himself).

Pedrobear29 Apr 2016 11:48 p.m. PST

Cover caught *my* eyes.

Will this work for Homeric warfare?

hongihika30 Apr 2016 5:12 a.m. PST

@Pedrobear – I think it will work well for Homeric-era skirmishes – particularly the honours given to heroic characters. We brainstormed some ideas for Trojan Wars, a long while ago, with heroes in it. Greek mythos incorporated into the game would be great, but we haven't really worked that out yet…

Pedrobear30 Apr 2016 6:55 a.m. PST

Well, in that case, you have yourself a sale!

Pedrobear30 Apr 2016 9:14 a.m. PST

OK, I bought the rules, read them, and have posted a review on my blog:

link

:)

GGouveia30 Apr 2016 9:46 a.m. PST

Hongahika, looks very cool and what a great way to promote the deeds of your ancestors. I'm actually going in a trip to Oz and NZ this summer.

hongihika30 Apr 2016 3:14 p.m. PST

Cheers Pedrobear – a very kind review! Hope you don't mind if I post a link to it on our FB page.

re:Trojan wars & stripping armour/chariots, one of the really fun things about Tribal mechanics is that it provides the framework for players to come up with their own special rules. Stripping armour, to me, could work well with the Gladiator armour rules. On top of that, perhaps it would take an activation to strip the armour from a fallen enemy – only heroes could do this to other heroes. The result of this could be gaining one or two 'kleos' or 'glory' (honour) points, depending on whom the armour came from. Chariots… depends on how they were used in battle… would have three (four?) full moves, could engage in combat at the end of 2nd/3rd/4th moves, and must continue their move after combat? Chariot provides armour protection like the gladiator armour? Movement would require slow turning. For such a powerful part of the force, it would need to be expensive – 3 or 4 honour pts. Just some ideas…

btw – Nic at Eureka miniatures, who has supported us in doing this set of rules, is keen to do a range of 28mm Dark Age/Bronze Age Greeks to tie in with Tribal… might be worth having a word with him about what would be good for a Tribal/Homeric-Greek force. ;)

@GGouveia – that's awesome. In NZ, I'd recommend Rotorua and one of the maori village experiences to get a taste of maori culture. If you head up to the Bay of Islands, and you learn about the Flagstaff Wars – the chief who kicked it all off, Hone Heke, was a direct ancestor of mine. ;)
In oz, if you're in Melb, lemme know and happy to have a game of something and/or bring you to the Eureka shop.

Pedrobear30 Apr 2016 8:43 p.m. PST

Hongahika,

I was thinking the exact same thing! One activation to strip the armour, and then the hero must bring it back to his chariot to be transported back to the rear. While he is still holding the amour it can be wrested back from him by winning a combat against him, and so on.

Chariots can be used more as a marker than a game piece in this case. In addition the wounds of the heroes can be tracked on the chariot bases or cabs instead of the heroes' bases.

Let me go re-read Iliad to check on the details.

I also decided to use Kleos instead of Honour too. :)

Added: Please feel free to link to the post.

hongihika02 May 2016 3:43 a.m. PST

Yep that works well for stripping armour – similar to the way captives work in the Flower Wars rules for Aztecs, or Mourning Wars for Iroquois.

Chariots as wound trackers for heroes is an excellent idea! Could maybe stick the dead enemy behind the chariot as well, as Kleos trackers… like Hector behind Achilles' chariot. ;)

Arteis0206 May 2016 2:45 a.m. PST

Really interested hearing about this. I've been working on a colonial NZ Wars figures and terrain for some time, so this could be useful. Whilst (at the moment) these rules wouldn't involve my colonial forces, I've got more than enough Māori figures to play a pre-European game.

Pedrobear06 May 2016 6:13 a.m. PST

That's really impressive!

GGouveia29 May 2016 10:28 a.m. PST

Hongihika it turns out my wife and I will be in Melbourne in July. I'd love to try tribal as well as check out Eureka miniatures.

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