"Salute Coordinator Resigns" Topic

Lets see.
Lots of people expressed concern (even outrage) at the presence of the re-enactors, particulary the kids.
An official apology was posted.
Pretty much everyone was happy with that.
An email was revealed.
Author of email almost immediately resigns.
Pretty much nobody was happy about that given the previous apology.
No glee or smugness (I sincerly hope).
The whole thing would have fizzled out had not 2BG published the email.

"s that an exact number? or one you just made up up?"

Call it a very approximate figure to the true one.

"I aapologise that you felt patronised, that was not my intention. My intention was to make a point in a deliberately non-agressive manner.

I understand what you were doing. My reply was not directed specifically to you but also to the many posters who have been baying for blood over the past five/six days. My opinion of the SS is the same as yours. My opinion of the organisers (coloured by personal knowledge) is apparently much higher than many.

And I stand by my point – personal attacks on volunteer organisers is not conducive to producing a great show next year.

Colin"

Looks like I overreacted a little bit to your post… My humblest excuses.

Besides I agree wholeheartedly with the last sentence of your post.

Regards

@ the Editor
"Did anyone on TMP ask for Dunn to resign???"

one for example is BigSid page 3 of the "Just back from Salute…" Topic TMP link

"I join with other posters in asking for the organisers to apologise and for whoever put forward to idea of inviting 2nd BG to resign."

Lawrence

what a shame.. Steve Dunn always did an outstanding job as Salute CO, and I truly hope he gets asked to come back..

In order to rebalance things, at next year's salute, I would suggest to invite reenactors of the Dresden bombing for a truly educational event. This way the sensitive Salute crowd could learn as Nazi should be really treated.. obviosly, including the little ones wearing (burned) shorts..
Then you will really sit back and relax, will you?

Madmax:

Following your thoughts a little further: to hate Nazism implies to burn little children.

I pity you. Truly.

You have missed the point by as far as you missed Salute.

It is a shame when someone who has provided so much pleasure to so many has to resign because of a few intolerant people.

Willie,
happens!

Willie?
Kaka happens?

>-"Partners in the killing of 6 million people."-
>is that an exact number? or one you just made up up?

It is, as you well know, a well researched and generally understood to be aproximately correct number. And is the point you're making that if only 5 million Jews, Gypsies, etc, had been murdered then that would have been OK?

@ the Editor

"Did anyone on TMP ask for Dunn to resign???"

one for example is BigSid page 3 of the "Just back from Salute…" Topic TMP link

"I join with other posters in asking for the organisers to apologise and for whoever put forward to idea of inviting 2nd BG to resign."

Lawrence

Only after Mr. L Dunn posted comments to peoples pages threatening them with being blocked from Wikipedia

Basileus66, you cannot even understand a paradox made to emphasise the blatant hypocrisy of some of your comments, never mind the difference between historical reenactors and political activists … I am a bit concerned for you ..

Blatant hypocrisy? Come on! Are you serious? Why, if you please? Perhaps I have defended to have a representation of 9th Air Force? Or of a re-enactor posing like Bomber Harris? No.

I said, and maintain, that SS were not just an elite force. You can't separate their killings from what they were and what they represented.

Of course, I understand the difference between political activism and historical re-enaction. And that was the problem of the display at Salute: they crossed the line when begun to sell Third Reich political memorabilia and dressing children in Nazis outfits.

Of course, I am grateful for your concern for me. It's touching.

Can I just point out that Steve Dunn and Larry Dunn are NOT THE SAME PERSON! Steve is (was) the Salute Show Coordinator. Larry is a Wiki editor.

S.Dunn <> L.Dunn

Cheers,
Colin

I think the actions of a few saddos, hiding behind the anonymity of the internet are truly reprehensible. With little thought other than knee-jerk political correctness they have threatened the continuity of one of the best wargames shows in the world – and that is not hyperbole. I try not to get angry nowadays – there is too much to get angry about! Wargaming was my little 'escape'. Yet this furore has angered me more than …. well, more than it should.

The great guys at Warlords organize a great show. I find some of the games and things organized distasteful. As a Catholic and a prude I find the obsession with 'Nuns with guns' and silly figures of females scantily dressed (designed/purchased/painted by losers that will probably never meet a real woman, let alone a lady) and all manner of demonic stuff beyond the pale! Perhaps I should have said something!!!! I didn't. The TV pretending to be Lara Croft a few years ago caused not a ripple of concern, yet this does….<sheesh>

As Justin said, if you don't like the show don't attend (I don't, as I said, I'm a prude) but in the name of God stop belly-aching and stop getting folk that put a lot of unpaid time into organizing a show to quit.

I went away for a while and calmed down with a cigarette and a glass of red wine. Yet I still can't quite get my head around the fact that whining nincompoops, who do nothing for the hobby, by posting some ill-thought out whinges have got a fellow hobbyist to resign.

One irony that probably escaped the nay-sayers was that whilst they were posting their, "I'm really offended' missives was that the advertising banner was probably trying to flog them some WW2 German stuff (as it did to me as I wrote my first post).

If you were so offended by the re-enactors then why wargame?

Anyone still hanging around this thread?
I think the extremely well composed letter of apology molified (is that the right word?) everybody. After that I think things would have died down, and I don't think there were any subsequent calls for resignations.
It was only the later email publication by 2BG that caused Steve Dunn to resign, which I think is a great shame.
I hope public opinion will cause him to rethink because I can only imagine the selfless effort and sacrifices he has put into this hobby.

What an interesting thread.

I for one was gladdened to see reenactors at this wargames show. This is a common thing at the Sheffield Triples. 1:1 is a great scale. I might have chosen a different group or perhaps had an allied one next door to mollify things – but was pleased to see Reenactors at Salute. I hope we will see more.

So far I have yet hear anyone whine about Battlefront and their 1:100 SS troops, Millicast and their 1:76 Tigers or anything else involved in the same conflict.

Reenactors worldwide are accountants, lawyers, truck drivers etc who participate in theatre. Well researched and very expensive theatre. That half track may very well have cost more than a GW army!

Personally I find people with backpacks more offensive than reenactors at these shows – they are always knocking into people and NEVER buying anything when they hog all the stand space. I find those hordes in black tshirts spending this years hygeine allowance on figures offensive. (PLEASE USE SOAP BEFORE ATTENDING SHOWS GUYS!!!)

History has shown us that those who try to forget history are destined to repeat it. Everything represented at Salute by 2BG happened. It is still happening today.
Perspective.
Do I condone Oradour? No. Belsen? No. But do we burn street performers because they dress as angels and we are agnostic? No. Do we burn books because we don't like what they say? No. (yet)

We are in a hobby that represents war in many forms. We roll dice and represent the death of dozens, hundreds or even thousands. In my time as a wargamer (almost 40 years) I must have killed tens of millions. I have even destroyed whole planets.

Reenactment is theatre. It is research. It is living history. The bad needs to be remembered and preserved just as much as the good. Of those offended I must ask – did anyone TALK to these guys? I did. They were very interesting and knowledgable. Most do SS because the uniforms are interesting. All hate the politics. Did anyone see the medical unit? Probably not. People who are fanatics don't restore ambulances.

As for Steve – let the man be. He put on a great show. As always it was well presented, well organised, and well attended. It will be again.

I will be there. I will talk to the reenactors again – whether they be ACW, ECW, AWI, FIW, WW1 or WW2. Mostly they are interesting people who are passionate about history. (FYI one of the largest reenacting units in the former USSR is an SS unit.)

John McLennan
Surrey
England (NOT Britain!)

Well said John! My sentiments entirely.

I spoke to the 'medical SS officer' and as you said he was very friendly and knowledgable. Obviously a lot of effort went into that display. The combination of late war pattern camo and a guy wearing an MP18 was the only thing that I found somewhat puzzling. But then again I'm no great WWII expert, so what do I know.

People trying to forget history do indeed risk of making the same errors. People that try to ignore history or even worse, shape history to their own, mostly narrowminded, view usually have their own agenda.
Alas, it often includes hatemongering and I'm afraid Steven fell victim to them.

Together with you and all others that do appreciate the effort Steve, John, Paul and other Warlords have put into the Salute show for years, I would like to implore Steve to reconsider. People like that can't be missed…

"They were very interesting and knowledgable." Did you talk to the kids in HJ uniforms? Were they "interesting and knowledgable"?

You need to read what people have actually said on these threads. It wasn't the reenactors per se that most people had a problem with. It was the kids in HJ uniforms and the selling of Nazi merchandise. Even the Warlords got them to stop selling the mugs and CDs.

"Together with you and all others that do appreciate the effort Steve, John, Paul and other Warlords have put into the Salute show for years, I would like to implore Steve to reconsider. People like that can't be missed…"

Speaking as one who DIDN'T bay for blood on this one. I too would ask Steve Dunn to reconsider. We all make mistakes and clearly the "additional elements" of the 2BG display were not what the Warlords asked for or expected. Steve cannot be held to blame for that.

@Mike Snorbens

To be fair, I didn't speak to any of the HJ kids because that part of the display didn't interest me.

But I did smile at the kids simply because they were kids…

Same as I would smile at a Boy Scout group that were selling things to finance their next jamboree.

And again I wouldn't associate them with a regime that was responsible for the death of thousands women and children in the first concentration camps in modern history.

It was the kids in HJ uniforms and the selling of Nazi merchandise.

Parents put their children in all sorts of odd situations. When they grow up they will have the choice of what they do.

Apparently people were buying, so either this stuff was not as awful as painted or there are a lot of 'terrible' people running around. My point on the selling side is if it is legal, whats the problem?

I think this whole matter has joined the current series of Doctor Who in elevating shark jumping into some sort of exotic art form…

In fact you're right KatieL. Except that in this instance some of the sharks actually got a mouthful.

Can't help it. Whenever I feel that a man or woman is slagged of for doing his or her best I will react.