Skeptic | 23 Feb 2017 8:45 a.m. PST |
Alright! I was about to repaint some grey ones… |
Joes Shop | 23 Feb 2017 8:59 a.m. PST |
How would these scale in with 20mm Vehicles / Figures -? |
Rich Bliss | 23 Feb 2017 9:24 a.m. PST |
They seem awfully small even for 15mm. I believe the escarpments in Libya were 10s of meters tall. |
Joes Shop | 23 Feb 2017 1:52 p.m. PST |
Rich: agreed. I've never seen them in person. I'm thinking they might be useful to simulate undulating ground in / with 20mm. |
Rich Bliss | 23 Feb 2017 2:12 p.m. PST |
Maybe a rock outcropping. Not exactly a common feature in the Westen Desert. Maybe in Tunisia. |
Henry Martini | 23 Feb 2017 3:19 p.m. PST |
Given the unavoidable horizontal spatial compression of the wargame table-top, a little vertical compression probably helps to keep everything a touch more proportional. Just view its visual effect in the same light as the use of under-scale buildings. |
Skeptic | 23 Feb 2017 3:40 p.m. PST |
I'd use them to represent bluffs, or a pair of them to represent a ravine. |
Rich Bliss | 23 Feb 2017 4:43 p.m. PST |
Maybe, but the escarpments in North Africa are miles long in most places. I think these are just designed to give tanks somewhere to hide, something they rarely had in the actual battles. |
Wyatt the Odd | 23 Feb 2017 8:26 p.m. PST |
A couple of sets and you can proxy Kasserine Pass. |
Rich Bliss | 23 Feb 2017 8:38 p.m. PST |
Going to need more than a couple. |
kallman | 24 Feb 2017 10:14 a.m. PST |
Geez guys, no matter how beautiful a table you make with all the possible terrain effects there is ALWAYS going to be an element of abstraction. The size and scale table you would need to do Kasserine would require the deck of an aircraft carrier and that would be going with microarmor most likely. Maybe 10 mm. We put on wargames to at least capture the feel of the actual battlefield. We run the gamut, there are those who are fine with a swatch of color felt and a few rocks and lichen and will call it a forest or whatever. I don't find that appealing so I go for doing a good bit more. But there is no wrong way to do this hobby other than our own individual standards we each apply. I am just glad to see GF9 putting their Battlefield in Box terrain out again which has not been unavailable for some time. I would add another note that at some point the level of "realism" one would shoot for on a particular historical battlefield runs into the issue of a certain pragmatism. You need to be able to get adult size hands into the confines of a building in order to place your models. This means certain details and what would be realistic spacial design has to give way to what is practical. The example of Kasserine if I wanted to do it realistically would be impractical in my preferred scale of 1/56. The height needed for the pass would make reaching in by players almost impossible without ladders and poles to push the models. Even 15 mm would be tough. So we accept abstraction and go for doing the best we can. Game on. |
Joes Shop | 24 Feb 2017 10:23 a.m. PST |
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Patrick Sexton | 24 Feb 2017 11:11 a.m. PST |
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Combat Colours | 24 Feb 2017 3:55 p.m. PST |
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Rich Bliss | 25 Feb 2017 7:28 a.m. PST |
I'm less interred in how it looks but rather how it acts. The escarpment was a major feature in some Western Desert battles and should present a large barrier to movement, not simply something to hide a couple of tanks behind. |
Cheriton | 25 Feb 2017 12:51 p.m. PST |
Kallman: +3 PS – Сколько стоит? |
kallman | 25 Feb 2017 7:04 p.m. PST |
Dang Cheriton, wish I could read Russian. @ Rich Bliss, so is the issue that there needs to be more escarpments than are available in the box set because there needs to be a longer run of them? I can agree in part. But you have to consider the customer this is mainly geared toward Rich. Which would be initially players of the Flames of War game. Also it is marketed to those gamers who either don't have the time of skills to build terrain or both, but have the cash. While I do have the skills to build terrain sometimes I do not have the time. I have the cash so a couple of these boxes makes it easy for me to set up a throw down game set in the desert. And yes I have built long escarpments for my desert games but with practicality in mind as I mentioned earlier. |