"South East Asia in the medieval/ renaisance period" Topic

Looks like you will have some variety in elephant poses which I thing is a good idea given the importance of the elephant in this period. I am very much looking forward to your 15mm range and Legend of Suryothai themed figures. Can't see too much of the infantry. Looks like its a militia figure since there is no lacquer helmet. Glad to see the post, I was wondering about the status of the line and expected release date.

Naresuan Part 1 is out in Thailand. It was shown in theatres earlier this year and is now available on DVD (no English sub-titles alas). The first part covers Naresuan's boyhood as a hostage in the Burmese court.

The battle scenes are fantastic and are more epic than those in Suriyothai. Costumes, sets and backdrops are equally stunning and will take your breath away, especially if you have been to Ayathuya or Sukhothai and tried to imagine what it was like back in the day.

So what is the anticipated release date for these 15mm figures?

Well as a thai (siameese) wargamer, I have to warn people about the exagerration of the armours worn by most of the thai characters. Naresuan too more less the same. But you could count on the history and warfare bit to be quite accurate.

If anyone could understand thai, in narasuen the mon characters which had a love seen are not authentic. They were added in by the director to spice up the movie.

My suggestion for good campaigns should be along king Narasuen's campaign to liberate thailand as well as having a good revenge on the back stabbing cambodians ( see part2) and giving the malayans a good run for their money.

We are hoping to release the 15mm range at Colours in September. If anyone os going to Battlegroup South this weekend @ Bovington Tank Museum we will be putting on a 28mm S.E.Asia game with Elephants, infantry, mercs and a galleon! You can join in if you like.
If you are going pop by the game or the Baker Company Stand for a chat.
Paul H.

Glad to hear it. Look forward to your 15mm range.

Hello folks
I have had trouble posting but hopefully the editor has sorted it out
as Paul said we are hoping to release the range at Colours,along with a few resin items if we can (for 15mm and 28mm)
.by the way N.J. I would be very pleased to hear from you by Email
barrycarter70@hotmail.com
and that goes to anyone else that is interested
Cheers
Barry(Rajahpakdee)

Possibly found Khmer chariot horse, picture on front of my site if anyone can id. It has got K stamped on the base and looks like it could be the right figure, though it also suggests one of a pair.

garrisonminiatures.com

OK finally got some 15mm infantry figures loaded onto the website. PLEASE DO NOT ORDER ANY YET (he said hoping that some of you might feel like buying some when they are available). These packs (of 8 figures of the same pose) should be available to purchase by the end of the month with many more packs following shortly after that. We plan to have the whole 'initial release' range completed for Colours at the end of September. More packs will depend on peoples interest. Take a look sand please let us know what you think!
Paul H.
Baker Co

can I thank Paul for putting up the pics ,but can I ask that when viewing you bear in mind they are hugely blown up and perhaps give a less than great impression
point is ,as with many 15s a paint job and basing will add to the basic figure
that said we received many compliments when we showed them at Bovvy ,so perhaps I am being my usuall over critical self
let us know what you think,
thanks

Garrison Khmer chariot now available

garrisonminiatures.com

Hope to see more pics on your site soon! How about some lacquer helmet troops.

Hi guys
Paul at Baker co tells me that he has some of the first packs of 15mm figures ready to go.so if you want ,you can order now.
The first of th Elephants will be ready in a couple of weeks,ready for the release of the range at Colours ,where we hope to have a game to show ,even if its just a 2x2 dba set up.
by the way Deadbee ,the lacquer helmeted guys are among the next set of releases
thanks for your patience guys ,and we hope you will be impressed by this new and rather unussual range
Barry

Very cool, though the website says you can't order them yet.

yeah you can
Paul may not have time to change that yet but if ye ask ye shalt receive
I have just finished a burmese supply elephant which will be usefull for almost any period where elephants would be used,but that wont be cast for a couple of weeks as we need to fill moulds when we make them
I am also working on the basic 2 man war elephant(nearly done) .no fancy seat on this one ,just 2 guys ,one on the neck and one on the back
Also a elephant with the seat that you will recognise if you watched Suryothai,eventually there will be many variants of the elephants(the three here are all diferent) as I think that will be a notable feature of this range
Barry

P.S.
I can get the DVD if anyone is interested
mail me at
barrycarter70@hotmail.com
also if you just want to chat
Cheers

The 15mm figures are available NOW! Oh and don't forget the 28's as well!
Paul

Well when a period gets hot, it gets hot. We at War Eagle Designs have already submitted design specs to our sculptor.

We seem to be starting the era a little earlier (No Pagans) with Talaings, Shan, Arkans, Burmans and others as well. In 15mm.

Hi Rudy
sounds really interesting, lets hope we are compatible in scale .many of our figures will certainly do for earlier periods and an elephant is always an elephant
It will be great if we can promote the S.E.Asia region as a whole and raise the profile of this regions military history
I will be sending the first Elephant models to Paul for moulding next week and hopefully we will get some pics up soon
Rudy, do you have anything we can look at ,a website perhaps
and perhaps some other ranges by the same sculptor. Also where are you based?
best wishes with your project
Barry

Sculptor is in Canada, casting company in Colorado. Both with very solid reputations and do quality work. I am in Alabama USA.

My fingers are in a lot of pies at the moment which means that Ido not have resources to devote to one project. I am heavily involved in the Crimson book project as an content editor, talent scout and sometimes author. Of course a title on Burma-Siam is one of the proposed titles.

In regards to photos, I have some of the Sahel Africa 'greens' range which I just got the master mold proofs in the mail from the caster. I am keeping a tighter control over these than I did on the Three Kingdom Koreans which are being cast by Quatermaster. People seem to be having problems getting them. So I want to try to avoid this problem.

Inregards to size, they may not match as Iambasing mine on the TKKoreans and Quatermaster Mongols which are true 15mm as opposed to 18mm.

As regards rules a friend of mine is working on a set which ,as he is a historian,and Thai,and has access to a lot of stuff ordinary people dont get to see,are very involved and may not suit some people ,but reading the section on Elephant combat for example is very interesting and gives an insight into just how highly elephants could be trained for war.bear in mind that working elephants can be trained to respond to dozens of commands from their mahout ,even today and that apparently there were also tecniques to keep animals in a constant state of "must"
Which makes them violent and normally occurs only during mating, and you can see why they would have been a very effective weapon when compared to the rather hit and miss type of weapon we think of in the west

You could also use 25MM Warhammer type rules and put more figures on a base,and then there are the more ussual dbm,dba type rules for competitive games
Paul Harding has also written a set that we use at shows for a fast paced ,easy to pick up game which he mentioned developing for 15mm
So you have a lot of options

Barry, are you going to have any painting guides for the 15mm figures?

Somebody asked in Hobby News section about the current or future availability of painting guides for these figures. Barry/Baker Co. any painting guides available or published in one of the mags. It would sure be helpful.

Hello guys
Paul has put some painted examples of the first figures on the Baker.co website(see manufacturers)
as far as painting guides,my honest suggestion is to watch the films that are available or use Pauls figures as a guide
we will post more complete guides as new figures come out .
By the way Paul sent me the first elephant model(a burmese supply train elephant and I must say that I am very pleased with it .Perhaps he will put up a picture if we ask.
we hope to release the next batch of figures ,including a couple of elephants in a week or so
cheers
Barry

The 1st Elephant painted pics are on the website as well as the next 11 packs of figures. Take a Look at the 15mm south East Asia page. If you want to order any of the new packs please allow me a little bit of 'grace time' before delivery as i am stacked out with my 'real job' or the next week and a half. Painting is relatively easy. Most militia will be dressed in earthy greens and browns & drabby colours. Some would be in faded but more brighter colours – faded reds and blues, off whites. some skirts, shorts can be striped or 'tartan like' even 'run through' with golds and brighter colours. The leather armour is either black or dark reds with gold or brass flashings ormanents. Burmese tend to be a little more ornate and flashy with their colours. Sword hilts are dark brown or black. Blades i paint silver. Skin tones need to a little darker than european flesh. I mix up my own pint cos i cant find anything that 'looks right' off the shelf. The figures skin tone looks darker than it actually are but not by mutch. If you want more info i will try to post something on the web? let me know if it would be helpful?

It would be very helpful. Probably, like many people, I like some painting guides when I start a new period. Unfortunately, the quick flashes of action in the movies make it hard to see the colors. For example, I had the impression the darker lacquer helmets were more of a dark green and that one side wore the maroon(ish) lacquer helmets and the other the dark green (black), with the more ornate ones with gold trimmings. What about shields, some are shown being carried by the Burmese in Suriyothai.

I have a number of the 28mm figures from Timeline my only critic is that some of the legs came out oval also some of the arms look out of proportion and off kilter by way of anatomy other than that they are great figures. Should I mention that Falcon Figures used to produce a few figs for this period they were avaialble from The Quatermaster I believe 28mm and 15mm were listed.

An overall history of the region:
The Cambridge History of Southeast Asia, Vol.1, Part 1, From Early Times to c. 1500. Cambridge University Press, 1992, 1999. Nicolas Tarling.

The Early Kingdoms chapter gives a nice overall political picture of wars and alliances over the period.

Hi guys
I wonder if anyone would be kind enough to help with a little market research re. the Timeline ranges of figures for this period
given the kind comments people make when the figures are at shows,and on Baker.co website
it is very dissapointing that sales so far have been allmost nil
Is there anything we are doing or not doing that is putting people off actually buying figures
Your help and comments would be gratefully received in order to get this period ,and our figures ofcourse moving
thanks Barry

Barry, for my two cents there are two things. One, some sort of painting guide is really a must. I would be willing to pay for it though I think you would be better off with a glossy spread in one of the magazines with painting info included. I think I suggested before, an article with painting info like you see in WS&S (for the 1st Carlist War for example). The First Carlist War is an obscure war but the articles in WS&S with all the specific painting recommendations is what helped me jump in that period. Second, I was just waiting to make sure your range would be complete. Some ranges start off but never finish leaving it impossible to have a full army. Can you let us know what is in process/planned, etc. I am counting on some Portuguese and Cavalry.

Thanks deadbee
Generals elephant is in the pipeline as well as some light cavalry (siamese and Burmese)
PORTUGESE are not a priority because they can be had from many sources and I am not sure about the accuracy of those portrayed in the films
As for painting very basic for the mass rabble, but to do the subject justice ,I will ask my good friend "Siam Royalist" to perhaps make a contribution
just to make you all jealous.I travel to Siam in a week or so to spend a month " collecting inspiration"
All the best
Barry

Some painting guides as to the shields, helmets, armor, flags, etc would be very helpful.

A liltle bit about myself. Hello, I am one of the decendants of King Rama IV or King Monkut from the King and I (the book and the movies is A LIES). In Thailand, royalist just recover from our lost in the early war against democracy party. We are the only traditional Siamese culture left in Thailand. Since the revolution, the government has been trying to destroy Thai culture such as cloth wearing, chewing Betel Nuts, etc because they afraid that one they we will rise agaist them. Most of the film that common people made in Thailand are mislead and misinform (except Suriyothai and Naresuan which Prince Yukol made it…lets pray that it will get in the oscar). Many document that western people has came from the common people historian and document which has almost a complete lies. Some of the document left for public viewing is not introduce to western tourist but Rajahpakdee will go to see them on his visit to Thailand.

Painting guide:

Peasants in Royal army wears red cloth (and red hats) since the royalist provide their cloth

peasants in rural army wears dark color cloth.

Why? Because they can not afford to even buy a cloth…how could they find a dye to make color?

Burmese some how wears a chess board pattern cloth with many color.

Officer form Siam wears stripe shirt.

Patern on shield, helmets and armor is varied but has the fix pattern…I need to know where I can post picture.

SE Asia do not carried a banner or flag around like in the movies. Only Commander has a flag.

If you need more detailed…I can goes into the detail for you but I need to post some sample pictures for you.

I will be happy to talk about Historical topic too but it has to be confidential.

My e-mail: sri-siam@hotmail.com

I am also working and translating on a SE Asia Wargame. We have a wargame before "Kriegspiel", which was invented around 1811. Every major palace or Royalist community played this game (personally I think the oldest version was late 13 century). The rule include city management, role playing (character improvment and title), battle. The battle are different from common rule that you guys know (I guess). I am not gonna say much about the detail but I will make sure one thing that, you guys can use this rule to reenactment the battle of Marathorn or Cannae (the part that persian penetrate the line or carthage being push back).

There you are ,ladies and gentlemen.Real life Siamese royalty.
I think if you have any questions on historical, or gaming matters relating to this period of Siamese history. This gentleman should be your first port of call
Understandably there is the occasional mistake in the use of English(I know he will take that in good heart,as we have become friends ) but unless any reader can also write such letters in fluent Siamese,I am sure that we can appreciate the general high standard of his English language skills
Thanks very much for the contribution mate.
Barry

Edited on "Painting guide" on 24 Oct 2007 4:09 a.m.

Siamese officer wear "Dark Blue", Stipe shirt. stipe should be gold. I will post a picture on myspace if you guys are really interest.

Hello, I am very interested in the SE Asia Wargames. I have some of the 28mm figures. And hope to build up great armies. Is any interested in the period nineteenth century Burma and IndoChina. I have a great book on the period and it has many illustrated plates of dress and uniform and even hair style and weapons. No colour through. It also has some actual photo of the period too, with one of a Siamese war elephant taken before 1877. the crew have bell shaped helmets and are armed with a jingall and various pole arms. It also has description of troop types. Varying and colourful types. Interesting skirmishes described too.

Here is a link for that book if any one is intrested.
link

Sorry wrong link, but that is a nice book too.
link

Here is another interesting link for those who have not seen it!
link

Another good link!

tonyjaa.org/sword_king.shtml

I obtained these at the Historicon show since I had published a number of articles in Time Portal Passages magazine about Medeival Burma and Thailand. The Thai/Siam/Shan range produced is for the Medieval Dynasty. There are 7 numbers in the range. The (Thai #1 is and elephant, 2-5 are foot, 6 are extra elephant riders and Thai7 is a mounted pack. The infantry are without shields but these are unattached (and can be added only in pack #2). The infantry has a troops wearing the Sung style hat. Troops are open handed so weapons of choice can be added The horse as is one rider pose but the other pose lacks animation. Thai 2 is a terrible standing pose. Thai 3 and 4 are nice advancing poses. Thai #5 are advancing archers with loose bows but a nice pose. Some people may not like them but, they can be used until someone does better. It is a good first effort by the company. They are packaged in standard UK format (8 foot or 4 mounted) and are available from Quartermaster.

The time frame is a good question to ask Kai at Quartermaster. Based on the influence in trade from southern china I would say so but some loose firearms look like they are in one pack so may be 1500. But they are openharded to add other weapons. When I was doing the research on Burma for the Time Portal Passage articles, I do know that the Thais have some Mon and Shan tribes (mostly Shan)in Siam. Tribal dress was distinctive enough that they could be distinguished from other tribes.
In regards to 25mm, I thought I saw a reference to 25mm Thais on the Miniatures page?

Although this post is nine years late, but thought all S.E Asian gamers would welcome a project currently in the first. Commission stage called Beyond The Pagoda, this will be in 28mm , first six figures are being sculpted currently. Starting with the 1800s but will be covering earlier periods as well!