| bobmcdonald | 31 Aug 2006 3:28 p.m. PST |
By the way … if you have a copy of Dam Busters, watch the bomb run footage back-to-back with the destruction of the Death Star in Star Wars (the "real" Star Wars, i.e. "Episode IV"). Quite a bit of the dialog and "aerial choreography" is a dead copy. The key difference: in Dam Busters, they use straight-ahead math and engineering to figure out how to put the bomb exactly on target, while in Star Wars, Luke has to turn of the computer and "use his feelings". Faith-based bombardment…. |
| Plynkes | 31 Aug 2006 3:34 p.m. PST |
I always said the Death Star attack was Dam Busters in Space. My friends looked at me like I was mental. |
 Panzerfaust  | 31 Aug 2006 4:33 p.m. PST |
Isn't the entire plot of the movie supposedly lifted from a samurai movie called Hidden Fortress? |
| crow hq | 31 Aug 2006 4:58 p.m. PST |
When George Lucas pitched Star Wars to the studios, he had storyboard sequences for most of the film, but used footage taken from The Battle Of Britain and The Dam Busters for all of the space combat sequences – hence the choreography style in the finished article. |
| (Blank Name) | 31 Aug 2006 5:00 p.m. PST |
What about 633 Squadron vs. Star Wars? Their attack run was up a fjord to a target point on the underside of a cliff. |
| Doc Perverticus | 31 Aug 2006 6:19 p.m. PST |
The Hidden Fortresses main influence on Star Wars was the inclusion of 2 lowly and bickering peasants who were always getting into trouble, bickering, needing to be rescued, bickering, making bad choices……. and bickering. I just watched the Hidden Fortress for the first time completely, last weekend- it is a gem of a movie- I recomend it without reservation |
| jpattern | 31 Aug 2006 6:50 p.m. PST |
Yeah, one of the documentaries I saw years ago even showed Lucas's pieced-together "storyboard" side-by-side with the final scenes. Very cool. |
| nvdoyle | 31 Aug 2006 7:03 p.m. PST |
Their attack run was up a fjord to a target point on the underside of a cliff. That sounds utterly awesome. |
| Bombot | 01 Sep 2006 12:56 a.m. PST |
I don't think Lucas is shy about revealing his influences. Arise Lord Frankenstein anyone? Funnily enough I was reading this morning that Peter Jackson is doing a remake of The Dam Busters. |
| Jedispice | 01 Sep 2006 3:36 a.m. PST |
As for the Hidden Fortress influence, anyone else watching Rome who thinks Pullo is (a huge) R2 and Vorenus is C3P0 (with a sword)? |
| certainty | 01 Sep 2006 4:57 a.m. PST |
nvdoyle, you haven't seen 633 squadron? where have you BEEN ? its is a classic… and the music is rather nice too. I always felt the Star Wars attack sequnce was a lot more like 633 squadron than Dambusters…. but I have seen neither for twenty years. Pat |
| David Manley | 01 Sep 2006 5:34 a.m. PST |
I'm off with the lurgy at the moment, which is a pretty good excuse to catch up with old "tarining movies". 633 Squadron AND Dambusters last night. I agree, Star Wars ep IV does seem a LOT more like 633 Squadron than Dambusters. (watching Battle of Midway today!) |
| mandt2 | 01 Sep 2006 8:11 a.m. PST |
Being an oldster, I saw 633 Squadron in the movies when it was first released. Years later, when watching Star Wars for teh first time, it was clear the attack on the heavy water (or was it rocket fuel) was somewhere at the root of the Death Star attack sequence. Though the movie is somewhat dated, and the special effects 1960s primitive, it's still an exciting flick. |
| chronoglide | 01 Sep 2006 9:32 a.m. PST |
I thought Lucas, Lord of Revisionism used 633 footage in place of ILM's effects shots while he was editing Ep IV together…as I recall 633 squadron is nearer to the trench run than dambusters… |
| chronoglide | 01 Sep 2006 9:33 a.m. PST |
ILM hadn't finished the shots or something… |
| Steve Flashman | 06 Sep 2006 9:10 p.m. PST |
Anyone remember the Other 633 squadron movie with Shughie McPhee from Crossroads and, bizzarely, a Sikh Mossie navigator complete with headphone and oxegyn mask fitted turban!! |
| Bombot | 07 Sep 2006 12:57 a.m. PST |
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| Conrad | 07 Sep 2006 2:11 a.m. PST |
Mossie = slang for the De Havilland Mosquito, a princess amongst aircraft. Flashman, the film you're thinking of is Mosquito Squadron. |
| Bombot | 07 Sep 2006 4:06 a.m. PST |
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| Fatman | 07 Sep 2006 7:17 a.m. PST |
Flashman and Conrad the fil with "Shughie McPhee as a Cockney (!!!???!!!) Nav' and which also features a sikh a one eyed pilot with a hook and no less than Mike Baldwin from corrie as another pilot is in fact 633 Squadron. Mosquito Squadron has David "Man from Uncle" McAllum leading a poor mans Ameion prison raid and used large amounts of 633 Squadron footage. Fatman |
| vojvoda | 04 Jan 2008 7:12 p.m. PST |
Wasnt one of those two movies (or both) based on real incidents in WWII? I seem to remember we studied one or both in recon school and reading about how they planned to "bounce" or skip the bombs off the surface of the water into the target. I am working on a larger scale version of this scenario (Death Star) in 25mm. Got about 30 Ships already and working on the plans to scratch build 10 towers and ten trench guns.
VR
James Mattes |
miscmini  | 04 Jan 2008 7:26 p.m. PST |
Dam Busters link
633 Squadron link and when you're tired of those you can always, "repeat please." link |
| miscmini | 04 Jan 2008 7:35 p.m. PST |
…and I think both 633 Squadron and Mosquito Squadron were loosely based on actual missions. |
| Sargonarhes | 05 Jan 2008 7:35 a.m. PST |
I always figured there was more influence to Star Wars than just Hidden Fortress. Old war movie and other things, some website claims Lucas originally wanted to make a Flash Gordon movie. While the influences are there I tend to think the Jedi were more influenced by the Lensmen as well as Samurai. |
| Smokey Roan | 05 Jan 2008 7:42 a.m. PST |
Their was a movie about the Mosquito. I think it was called "The Mosquito" ??? |
| Lord Flashheart | 05 Jan 2008 1:16 p.m. PST |
Mosquito Sqn was based on the raid to attack the Gestapo HQ and free resistance fighters being held. Not sure if 633 was based on any real raid though. |
| Smokey Roan | 05 Jan 2008 5:02 p.m. PST |
I built the Monogram 1/48 model. Nice enough, but I hated one thing about it. I love basecoating in metallic, then scratching the top coat off the wing edges, step areas, etc. Its hard to get a good "wood" undersurface look. I did do one heck of a Mae West style life jacket scratchbuild (figured they wore one since they croos the channel) |
| Judas Iscariot | 05 Jan 2008 11:12 p.m. PST |
I'll bet PJ does a good "Dam Busters"… WWII is really the only war for movies… It was a just war… Not one that was fought for some policians' vanity… |
| Cyclops | 06 Jan 2008 2:19 a.m. PST |
It uses some of the Dam Busters' dialogue as well. My brother noticed this accidentally when he watched them back to back a few years ago. Homage or rip off? |
| Steve Holmes 11 | 08 Jan 2008 5:00 p.m. PST |
I always considered the attack on the Death star to be lifted from events at midway. Esp the bit where the Y wings?? (Torpedo bombers) draw down the majority of the Tie Fighters while the X wings get a better run. Lines like "You fly in that heap of junk – you're braver than you look" could almost be lifted from a drama about the Fleet Air Arm |
