gorillamo | 23 Aug 2006 5:30 p.m. PST |
Howdy guys. I'm a bit of newbie when it comes to napoleonic wargaming. I recently downloaded the Elan ruleset from the web and have a couple of questions I was hoping some the grognards could answer? In relation to casualties sustained by units from small arms fire, the rules state that for every 2 hits sustained a unit removes a stand. Now when the rules refer to a stand does it mean a base with 4 figures (in the case of infantry)? Or does it mean a single figure from a base for every 2 hits sustained? Also does a HH on the chart represent 2 hits and a H a single hit? My issue with this is that if I were to use a Peninsular british list from the rules, each unit would consist of only 3 stands of 4 figures each. At close range it is quite possible that a battalion would be wiped out in a single turn? |
Phillipaj | 23 Aug 2006 5:44 p.m. PST |
Hello Gragalo I'm the author, so you can blame me! Since I tried to design the game to suit a range of basing styles and figure ratios you can in theory have any number of figures to a base/stand. So if you used the default basing (eg 4 figs to a stand) a H would be a on a figure, so if you suffered 4 hits you'd remove a stand. So, the units of 12 figures would stick around a bit longer. Yes, HH represents 2 hits. So if your unit suffered 2 hits, it would test morale for 2 hits,and remove two figures. Some players use different ratios of figures and have larger units, or don't have single figures, so they can decide to use the number of hits refer to a Stand. So if they have a unit made up of 12 stands (the number of figures on them is irrelevant), a hit would remove a stand. Note that hits on Staff and artillery require an additional roll on the Damage table to see what the effect is, since the figure scale for them is different to the other units. I hope that clarifies that for you- sorry for the confusion. Phillip |
Extra Crispy | 23 Aug 2006 5:46 p.m. PST |
Howdy! Have you aske this question on the Elan Yahoo group? link But IIRC Elan features single figure removal so I believe you would remove one figure. Thus, it would take 6 hits overall to remove a full stand
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gorillamo | 24 Aug 2006 12:04 a.m. PST |
Thanks guys. I've read the rules through and they seem like a good set. My plan is to eventually collect figures and terrain to recreate the battle of La Corunna. Phil, thanks for answering so promptly and for making these rules freely available on the web. |
Phillipaj | 24 Aug 2006 4:17 p.m. PST |
Good luck with the game, an interesting battle to choose! Feel free to tinker with the game (everyone else seems to!!) to suit your taste after a few games once you get a hang of things. I suggest you start small and work your way up in size of game as you get a handle on the mechanics. It can be a subtle or as simple game as you like (disclaimer-biased). Its had many thousand downloads I understand, mostly straight to the recycle bin I'm sure, but there was too much work there just to keep to oneself. Some chaps pick their favourite bits and use them elsewhere, or enjoy the army lists
. as long as they have fun! Finally a dedicated faithful (forever in my affections) actually play the game! cheers Phillip |
yowiedemon | 24 Aug 2006 8:54 p.m. PST |
I'm one of those thousands Phillip. I'm only building my Napoleonics armies so I hope to get to use your rules soon. |
Belisarius | 25 Aug 2006 6:05 a.m. PST |
I have them to phillp And I like them Especially the lists. trying to decide on a scale I am jumping between 6mm or 15mm cannot make up my mind |
Phillipaj | 27 Aug 2006 6:02 p.m. PST |
cheers lads- i appreciate the comments very much. yowie- where abouts are you- I'm guessing you're an aussie?! Belisarius – i think 6mm at a 1:10 or 1:20 ratio would look great with the look of massed troops (and quick to paint too!), but with so many lovely AB 15mm's out there, its a tough call. Deepfriendhappymice-if you see this Mark, do you know how many downloads to date? |
yowiedemon | 04 Sep 2006 8:19 p.m. PST |
Phillip, Yep. An Aussie. In Darwin. |
Arborian | 08 Jul 2020 5:26 a.m. PST |
In SECTION 1.1, paragraph 6 it mentions figures being removed. In SECTION 1.2, paragraph 10 it says that figures and not bases are used to calculate eligible troops for fire or fight and in paragraph 15 it refers to basing permitting 1, 2 or 3 figures to be removed as casualties. In SECTION 6.2, paragraph 228 it says that skirmishers fire only counts as hits for Morale purposes, and figures are NOT removed. Finally in SECTION 14, paragraph 399 it states: Roll 1d6 for each eligible Stand firing. For every two hits, remove a Stand. Single hits count for morale tests only (no Stand or figure removed). Finally my questions: A) Skirmishers are based on half Stands, do they throw 1d6 for every two half Stands? If this is so, then for British line battalions of 12 figures, at most 2 figures will be designated as light company and they will never be able to fight as skirmishers because they cannot fire! Or have I missed something? B) Both the text and charts state that a single hit (H) only has a morale effect (no figures removed) and a double hit (HH) re.oves a Stand (four figures) but you are saying that if we are using the bases described in the rules then a single hit removes 1 figure and a double hit removes 2 figures. Am I correct so far? If so is this only for volley fire? For skirmishers are NO figures removed (SECTION 6.2, paragraph 228)? C) For battalions of 13 or 14 figures how does the extra figure(s) above 12 improve the firing? For 15 figures it does say in the rules that 1d6 can be thrown for a three figure stand, so 15 figures would throw 4d6. Just the wild thoughts of a beginner: Would it be possible for a 13 or 14 figure unit to only throw 3d6, as a 12 figure unit, but have 2d6 one colour and 1d6 a different colour, with 1 being added to the single different colour dice throw? I know that I have written a lot but it is only to help me better understand. I have to say that the rules appear to use the right numbers of figures for the different units, to be relatively quick to play (compared to other rule sets) and likely to give a reasonable approximation to historic battles, which is why I have chosen these rules and would like to get the details battened down. Thank you in advance for these excellent rules. Ian Wood |
Allan F Mountford | 08 Jul 2020 11:09 a.m. PST |
Elan are based on the WRG 1685-1845 set from 1977. In the WRG set figures were mounted on bases with 2, 3 or 4 figures. Each base was called an element. Infantry skirmishers were based on two-figure bases and each base fired as a two-figure element. Casualties were recorded and removed in figures, never in bases/elements. I hope this helps. |
Arborian | 10 Jul 2020 6:54 a.m. PST |
Thank you Allan for your reply, it does explain how a light company of a line regiment can take part in skirmish fire. However I wonder if the fire results charts would need to be amended for 2 figures throwing 1d6 as opposed to the normal 4 figures throwing 1d6. To keep the probability of a certain result (Miss, Hit or double Hit) the same, skirmishers would need to throw 2d6 and at Short Range a result of 4/6, 5/5, 5/6 or 6/6 would = 1H. This equates to half the probability of 1d6 resulting in a 5 or 6 (i.e. 2 figures = half of 4 figures). At Long Range a result of 5/6 or 6/6 would = 1H. This again equates to half the probability of 1d6 resulting in a 6. This overcomes the problem of a single 2 figure half Stand taking part in skirmishing but still requires us to ignore the Firing Results tables statement that no figures are removed for a 1H result (Volley, Artillery or Skirmish). Or does the 1H result only remove a figure for Volley or Artillery fire, with a Skirmish 1H only affecting morale. Lastly how should extra but less than 4 extra figures be handled, as I asked in question C)? As I said previously I like the detail (not too excessive – as Bruce Quarrie's Napoleon's Campaigns in Miniature) which should lead to a reasonable game time. And thank you again for your help so far. Ian Wood |
Allan F Mountford | 10 Jul 2020 10:16 a.m. PST |
Again referring to WRG 1685-1845: (i) 'Troops are divided for shooting into combat elements of … two figures if regular infantry deployed as skirmishers'; and (ii) 'Odd infantry and cavalry figures are treated as a full element if only one figure short, otherwise are ignored.' |
Arborian | 11 Jul 2020 6:07 a.m. PST |
Thank you that helps. Ian Wood |
Arborian | 14 Jul 2020 9:04 a.m. PST |
I have just realised that whilst the fire attack (musket, rifle and Artillery) is now based on 1H = remove 1 figure and 2H = remove 2 figures. The close assault/melee is still based on removing Stands (4 figures). This doesn't seem quite right. Does anyone have any suggestions? Ian Wood |
Allan F Mountford | 15 Jul 2020 6:33 a.m. PST |
I would suggest it's a typo and 'stands' should read 'figures'. Also, page 125 states under Section 5:'5. Any infantry or cavalry units reduced to less than one Stand are removed from play (not including independent light companies).' I presume this means a unit left with insufficient figures to make up a full stand (thus inferring casualties are removed in figures) as any other meaning would be a nonsense. |