"Waterloo Movie Director's Cut" Topic

So what is the latest information on the director's cut of Sergei Bondarchuki's 1971 epic movie Waterloo? Does a director's cut exist or not? A 3 hour DVD version has been released but this still shows evidence of massive – and not very subtle – editing.

This issue is taking on all the aspects of an urban legend. Tales of dusty reels of 4 1/2 hour versions of this movie found in abandoned movie houses in eastern Europe abound. So do stories of dark conspiracies by movie distributors setting on a director's cut trying to force the price up.

Anyone who can shed some light on this question will undoubtedly gain the gratitude of the many admirers of this wonderful movie

According to imdb a 4 hour version never existed.

link

I have the fairly standard 128min version; the only bits that were in again were some shots of falling (i.e. tripped) horses, which had been cut from the version I saw on TV.

Is there a three hour version available?

Well imdb can claim what it likes,but I can remember editing a news story in 1970 which described how the movie was being shown in the Soviet Union in very long form (I believe it was six hours). The story pointed out that the Soviets had enthusiastically endorsed the movie,building the Waterloo battlefield in Russia and supplying thousands of Soviet soldiers as extras. Also one of Russia's greatest actors,whose name escapes me,played Blucher.
Anyway,when the movie came to my city it played at an art house theater for a week and I went to see it three times (I had just gotten into wargaming,specifically Napoleonics,and was soaking up everything I could find on the subject).
It was definitely longer that the current DVD version. I can distinctly remember battle scenes of the French advancing at Ligny and quite a few scenes with the previously mentioned Russian actor,who scarcely appears in the DVD version. The chronology of Waterloo was also much more detailed, which suggests,although I can't specifically remember,that more of the Waterloo battle was included.

Thanks for the information, 425dundurn.

In years past, I've heard rumors of an uncut version of "Waterloo" from a couple old friends. I think it's really interesting that one of us has actually seen it.

Fascinating. The fellow from Belle and Blade has been chasing after the long version for years. He finally got a DVD version that will play on North American players (which I picked up at Historicon). I have to belive in this internet age, a copy can be found somewhere.

If it's only ever been seen by "friends of friends" and the like… I'm going to have to chalk it up as urban legend and believe it when I see it.

Cos it's good.

Hi

The DVD version I have is 6.5 hours. 20 years ago I aquired the 6.5hour version on video tape, but a friend "borrowed" it after a couple viewings.

and I saw it in the theatres twice.

Rocky

Actually I think Steve (Belle and Blade) said he would pay $1,000.00 USD just to SEE the 6 1/2 hour version. If you've got it Rocky please let us know where we can get it .

Dave

Rocky … if you have this, you HAVE to do something … I had heard the original longer version was no longer in existence. I wonder if you can do a deal with the copyright holders – you might be onto a winner here.

I think Rocky is saying he no longer has a copy; "borrowed" by friend = taken and never returned?

Tragic.

I recall a conversation at a wargaming convention years ago with a wargamer who claimed to have sat and chatted with Christopher Plummer on a trans-Atlantic flight to London and said that Mr. Plummer confirmed that a "director's cut" existed But candidate 1066's point is certainly valid; 2nd and 3rd hand information is a far cry from proof.

Gentlemen
Scottish Television are making a series re-creating every battle of the Napoleonic wars.
There are ten million extras and they have gathered six million cavalry horses from all over Europe. They have manufactured more artillery pieces, caissons etc. than actually existed during the period and live ammunition will be used at all times – all casualties including deaths will be real and medical support will be restricted to Napoleonic levels.
My Aunt's brother-in-law plays squash with a guy who met a girl who is the secretary of a senior producer at Scottish Television and he has borrowed the outline plans from the director's uncle – so it is definitely true – I can't wait.
Regards
Napoleon I
The Happy Farm

Belle and Blade told me there is a way he can reproduce a hard to find video on his own with the studio's OK as long as it isn't done as a huge release. He could explain it better than I have have. The point is a handful of 6.5 HR Waterloos for us geeks would be kosher. Just have to get a copy for him!

Sergant Ewart, That's great news. And with CGI they can really go nuts. I wonder if there is a website of some kind?

There is a longer version, on pervious threads people did not beleive there was one longer than the video version of 124minutes, that has already been proven wrong.

When I was young before the days of video, I use to audio tape films all the time, the version I had of waterloo then was over three hours and now the DVD is also three hours. Yet neither of these versions show the other battle which was not cut from the orginal cinema release. It is not uncommon for different cuts to exist for different reasons. I have seen three different ones of A Bridge Too Far, one with some very weird missing scenes, and another with some actual war footage included. Some times these are bootlegs from iffy sources, other times a film will go through so many distrubutors and owners, that they often have the rights to re-release different versions. I am sure longer cuts are out there.

Rocky said: "The DVD version I have is 6.5 hours. 20 years ago I aquired the 6.5hour version on video tape, but a friend "borrowed" it after a couple viewings."

Rocky, just to confirm – are you saying you have (and still have) a 6.5 hours DVD, and you also had at one time a 6.5 hour tape that later got "borrowed"?

Or are you saying the more tragic version, that it was the 6.5 DVD that got "borrowed"? But in that case, do you still have the tape?

In other words, do you physically have at this time an actual 6.5 hour version of the movie "Waterloo", either on tape or DVD? If so, then PLEASE contact Belle and Blade – you HAVE to save that movie for posterity (and, more importantly, save it for us!!!).

Wow! I thought I was the only kid who audio taped shows. that's how I got my first copy of the BBC's Culloden program. Belle and blade later supplied me with a video of the same.

Thanks,

john

Hi

sorry to rattle your cages. I read the above before morning coffee, thought you were talking about the Russian "War and Peace" by Bonderchuck.

Which I bought at Barnes and Noble two years ago.

R

Rocky, you should apply for an advisory post with that gigantic Scottish Television production I was talking about – I'm sure they would value your perspicacity andcomprehension skills.
Regards
Napoleon I
The Happy Farm

Oh, Rocky ……. ;-(

So we're back to square one. Wait a minute. Wasn't that Elvis driving by with Bigfoot watching the director's cut on the onboard DVD player? And I thought he was strictly a WWII gamer. I'm getting Nessy and giving chase. Woohoo!

I figured as much. I've lost track of the number of times someone's started talking about this long version of Waterloo they've got or seen and it always turns out to be War and Peace.

I'll believe a longer, six-hour version of Waterloo exists or ever existed when someone can offer real proof NOW, not half-forgotten memories or third-hand rumors. And I've yet to see this fabled three-hour DVD anywhere, either.

There is NO longer version of Waterloo, or I would have it.

I do have the Russian War and Peace on VHS, Waterloo on VHS too for that matter (haven't gotten around to replacing it with a DVD yet). War and Peace is enormously looooonng. Nice battle scenes though….

1066.us

I accept your apology.

Hi

I expect my thinking was getting distracted by the 6 hour bit. I KNEW, having seen both, that there was no 6 hour Waterloo. In the day, the Russians made a big fuss about the 6 hour W&P, and how they would allow us capitalists to watch it. Their first idea was that you would buy a ticket and show up for one hour at a time all week. Then watching it in two or three sessions.

I watched it at the theatre in one setting, they had regular "intermissions", took over 8 hours. It was WONDERFUL.

But W&P was unique. That was part of it.

So, my confusion, and read before coffee.

R

Rocky, I believe you – believe it or not!!!
Gerry McGinty

Marquis – It's in your mailbox.
Thanks, Ed

As far as I know, in the early 90's, you could buy the video or dvd version of "Waterloo" for about $15.00. Then, some idiot in the American School system aquired the rights to the movie, to be shown in schools only. Suddenly, it was out of print. I just recently found a dvd copy on Ebay. I believe to this day, it is still out of print…

By the way, did anyone ever find the paperback book by Stephen K. Smith called "Waterloo", released at the same time as the movie? It has the movie poster as the front cover, with a listing of the actors on the back. The book reads very well. I was fortunate to find a copy a week after I saw the movie, in 1972. In the book (as in all books), there are many more scenes listed than what made it to the actual movie.

Yes, I have a copy of Smith's book.

The cover does have a great shot of the Greys charging through the gaps between Picton's battalions. That same still is in full page/full color format in the program sold when the movie was released.

The editing on this film was very, very poor…typical of Soviet-era films, in my opinion.

MJ

I am fortunate enough to own both the Smith book and the program that was sold at the theater when the film was released.

I agree with Jim that the two-page still, that being the crane shot of the Greys charging between Picton's battalions on their way to d'Erlon's infantry (all beautifully and clearly shown), might be one of the best war film images ever left on an editor's cutting floor. Why Bondarchuk left, or agreed to leave, that scene out of the version(s) we have seen is a mystery.

Regards,

Scott Bowden

I am wondering if all this confusion is a result of both W&P and Waterloo being mistaken one for the other over the last 30 odd years in regards to versions and lengths of film etc…

Regards
Shane

I have both W&P and waterloo on DVD.

The new DVD version of W&P by Rusico is excellent. The english dubbing is a bit ropey in places and flips back to russian, but the image quality is superb. Everything is now in widescreen, so the battle scenes are so much better and not cropped to silly sizes. I think there are a few extra scenes added to the film as well. Overall vastly superior to the VHS version.

Also the Waterloo DVD I have is a vast improvement on the VHS tape. The colours are so much brighter and cleaner. Unfortunately it is still the same length as the VHS version, so we will have to keep hoping somebody eventually finds the missing bits. Surely from the editing in the film release would suggest there was more footage available. I'll keep on dreaming.

Sorry misspelt Ruscico, but here ia a link

link

Wow this is an old thread…rumours and gossip never die. Frankly, I don't care too much about the long version as in the U.S. you can't even get the standard version anymore except second hand if you are lucky. Someone owns the copyright version to the North American DVD format and won't release it for some reason.

But, does Greedo shoot first in this one??

(Sorry, used my same line from another thread….well, I thought it was funny!)

At Historicon in July, 2006, there was a retailer selling a DVD of WATERLOO (it seemed to be running several times a day, but I was on the other side of the hall). When I got a chance to stop the retailer, the movie was not running, but I was told that it was a Japanese product, that the retailer was importing the title for sale but did not have them at the booth for sale; he could not answer a few other questions. Perhaps my fellow TMP patrons can help.

My initial questions are: can anyone who bought this DVD at Historicon tell me the running time of this version, and has it been remastered in any way(s)?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Regards,

SCOTT

Hi Scott

The DVD version I have of Waterloo is 129 mins long. Which I think is the longest version there is. I read a long time ago there was a slightly shortened version, editing out a few bits that showed where some horses looked like they may actually get injured (cavalry charge at the sunken road), I'm not sure which region that applied to though.

Not sure there is any great remastering as such on the DVD but the transfer to DVD is excellent, as I said before the colour is much brighter, so well worth getting a copy. Can you get region free DVD players in the states? They are pretty much the norm here in New Zealand.

I talked to a friend once who was English and he told me he went to the London premiere of Waterloo.

And he said that they had at least one or two intermission's during the film,he also told me the film was at least 5 1/2 hours long.

Another friend told me that once he saw Waterloo on TV and there was a scene where the Prussian's were marching around windmill's.

Plus i have the movie program book which has stills and some look very good,like a shot showing Wellington and Blucher on horseback meeting.

I truly believe that somewhere a longer version of Waterloo excists,perhaps in someone's private collection and i DON't believe that it doesn't excist.

Captain Gideon

There are fairies at the bottom of my garden – no really there are – I haven't actually seen them but I know someone who knows someone whose brother has seen them and photographed them although he loaned the photos to someone and doesn't remember who it was………….
Yours in fantasy
Gerry McGinty

I guess Sergeant you've made these comments for what i said?

Do you imply that i'm making up what i've said?

Captain Gideon

Leland,

Are you really planning to use them as mounts for Uruks?

If so, how are you planning to convert the Uruks to be riders?

CC

This tread has been going on long enough that I feel I ought to contribute. Also there is a lot of heat generating under collars because we have so few facts and a lot of conjecture.

It's now almost 37 years since I first saw the film and I still put on the DVD (Region 2, sorry America) and enjoy it. Yes you can poke holes in the historic details (where are the Germans and Dutch? 'Prussian Black?'!! etc) but it's still a good ride.

Like Captain Gideon I too remember lots of additional information and pictures in the publicity of the time. I remember:

1. An article about the actor playing Blucher which had pictures of him being filmed thrown from his horse at ligny.

2. Pictures of the Guards driving in on La Garde at the end of the battle, not just firing repeated volleys.

3. A picture of the Greys charging past Picton's troops to crash into D'Erlon's Corps.

4. A picture of Wellington meeting Blucher at La Belle Alliance.

5. The novel 'based upon the screenplay' that included lots of extra scenes.

Indeed there was a lot that just didn't get into the cinema release. I have seen it many times over the past 30 years in many formats, but the film has always been the same. Personally I believe that there has been confusion with the mega-long 'War and Peace' which Sergei Bondarchuk also directed. That, combined with the 'extra scenes' which were probably filmed but ended up on the cutting room floor gave rise to the hope that there was a 'director's cut'. I don't believe that there ever was one.

In the 70s the idea of the 'director's cut' was pretty much unknown. When Bondurchuk had to cut his film for commercial release, then that was the film's final form. There was no other. Furthermore, the film's lack of commercial success in the West meant that it was not revisited for re-release.

Somewhere is the missing footage which was, I am sure filmed. However, I don't believe that it was ever commercially joined up. One day someone may find the pieces and put it all together as they did with Abel Gance's 'Napoleon'. Until then, I'm afraid we may just have to accept that the fabled long version just isn't out there.

Don't know where the post about Uruks came from, but you can all ignore it.

Captain Gideon
'Do you imply that i'm making up what i've said?'

Dear Cap., I would never imply such a dreadful thing but what I will say is that I refuse to believe in this fabled version of Waterloo and I defy you or anyone else to find a five or six hour copy.
If you do, I will eat my bicorne while standing on my head on top of the Waterloo Lion.
Best Regards
Gerry McGinty

Captain Gideon
'Do you imply that i'm making up what i've said?'

Dear Cap., I would never make such a dreadful suggestion. All I will say is that I refuse to believe that such a thing as a five or six hour Waterloo exists and I defy you or anyone else to come up with one – if you do, I'll eat my bicorne and my wellington boots while standing on my head on top of the Waterloo Lion.
Regards
Gerry McGinty

run time 180 mins.

Dear Cap., I would never make such a dreadful suggestion. All I will say is that I refuse to believe that such a thing as a five or six hour Waterloo exists and I defy you or anyone else to come up with one – if you do, I'll eat my bicorne and my wellington boots while standing on my head on top of the Waterloo Lion.
Regards
Gerry McGinty

d

Well as long as Mrs Mop(ski) didn't just chuck the film straight into the bin off the cutting room floor there is hope. I recently bought the extended 'Eagle has Landed' DVD with 30 mins of extra footage, some of which was very badly damaged before being carefully restored. The new footage fits into the film seamlessly. Also would depend if somebody wants to spend the $$$ on restoring anything that potentially could be found, on what was a commercial flop.