"Grande Armee rules: basing size, 2" or 3"" Topic

I seem to be wavering between the two size bases so I'm looking for some feedback as why some of you chose which size and for which reason.

I am in the planning stages as well. Whether I go with 6mm or 10mm, I'll use the 3" square.

I thought that 2" might work ok for 6mm, but I did up a test base and believe it or not the 6mm fills up even a 3" square pretty easily. I don't think you'll get enough figures on the 2" square even in 6mm. And forget it for 10mm.

And if you go for 3" you can play V&B with the same figures.

Bede is right about it not filling the square but I use 2" x 2" basing as the reduced table size has proven very useful – especially in convention games.

I would decide based on whether you like having a couple of turns of deployment first. If you don't then use 3" as they look great. If you do you'll want the space that 2" affords.

If you fill them up with troops the 3" squares look better.

Apart from that there is no advantage for 3" over 2" bases which allow you to play larger games, with fewer painted figures on smaller tables.

And you can play V&B with them as well. Just use 2/3rd size measuring sticks, same as GA.

See hodgenet.co.uk/GA/basing.htm

I'm going with 2x2 because I dont need to paint as many figures in order to complete my OrBats and get entire armies on the table instead of mere divisions or a corps, which was the best I could hope for with 3x3. I will soon have the entire Allied and French armies for Waterloo represented. (After that, the Prussians; then Grouchy's Right Wing).

You can also use GA units, of either size, for the new Marechal de l'Empire by Polemos. (Except it does artillery differently.)

Hey, thanks guys and that's a cool logo Phil

Don Lowry, what size table are you gaming on? Can't you field whole armies if the table is large enough, or are talking about a REALLY BIG table?
Give me an idea how you are oganizing you brigades, I mean are there 2 or more rgts per stand?

Rick Lehman

My decision to use 2 inch stands is based on the size of my table, 6 by 4 feet. With a 6 by 9 foot table I might have 3 inch stands. But 3 inch stands on the table I have would get crowded fast.

Bigger is better.

>"Don Lowry, what size table are you gaming on? Can't you field whole armies if the table is large enough, or are talking about a REALLY BIG table?
Give me an idea how you are oganizing you brigades, I mean are there 2 or more rgts per stand?"<

I havent actually played GA yet, still painting. But table space is not the limiting factor; how much time and money I want to spend buying and painting minis is. (To me, painting is work; I only enjoy the finished product.)

My figures are true 15mm (old Heritage/Custom Cast/Empire, some early Minifigs, some recent Naismiths). I put the equivalent of 1 Empire battalion on a 2x2 GA stand — say 9-15 infantry, 6 cav. Most of my French infantry are in column formation (i.e. three rows of figures representing 2companies per row, elites at the rear) and most of my Brits in line (i.e. two ranks with elites on the flanks).

Yeh, Don Lowry, sounds kinda like we think alike. French in column and English in line. Are your Austrians in larger formations than the other nations?
Painting can be fun at first, but a few hunderd figures later and you're goin Postal, we all know where Serial Killers come from now. "Well officer, it all started when I painted my last Hussar."

Right now I'm basing on 40mm squares for home play so I can fit Waterloo on the dining room table. For a more epic looking convention game, I'll group 4 stands onto an 80mm sabot. I went with 40mm instead of 1.5" to allow just a little more surface area for 15mm figures.

Might even get all the figures painted in time to do the big Waterloo game for the Bicentennial :}

Currently working on a set of my own rules, but may pick up Grande Armee and Polemos for a look at some point. But $30 USD each is too much for the budget right now when I've just picked up a bunch more figs and bases.

I dont have any Austrians. I'm using Waterloo orders of battle.

MiniMo, how many figures do u get on a 40mm base?

For 15mm figs on a 40mm base:

2 ranks infantry — we're using 8 for guard/elite; 7, w/4 front for regular line; 7 w/3 front for conscript/good landwehr; 6 militia/poor landwehr; 5 guerillas.

1 rank cav — 3 in line for heavy; 3 w/2 forward for medium; 3 w/1 forward for light; 2 only for militia/cossack

1 gun — (the 40mm base holds the length of a 12# better than 1.5"), light 2 crew, medium 3 crew, heavy 4 crew; horse +1 mounted crew/officer.

MiniMo: so your system makes it easy for the opponent to size up the quality of the troops in front of him. Is that realistic? It sort of kills one of the main reasons for the roster sytem in GA!

Ah, but I'm not using Grande Armee; might try it later.

But for the general query on 2" or 3" base sizes — regardlesss of the rules system in question, if you go with 40mm or 1.5", you can play in a smaller space, like a dining room table, but still have the option to group 3-4 of the small stands on an 80mm or 3" when you have the space and the figures to expand. GA players may find this a useful option to consider.

Personally I tend to prefer not using rosters in the interest of streamlining play. My system is more like LPE, but with more distinctions for troop types. If you like rosters, then the number of figs per base doesn't matter.

Did some poking at my figures. I've been mounting everything in two ranks, and the 40mm depth is good for protecting extended bayonets from damage. But if you used only a march-attack pose, you could easily mount a 3x3 group; or even 4x3 if you wanted to give your guard stands an imposing look.

The 40mm or 1.5x1.5" stand idea is a good one (just halve all distances), but I think would be better for figures smaller than 15mm, such as 10mm and 6mm. I recommend 2x2 for 15/18mm and 3x3 for 25/28mm. (for 20mm or 1:76 plastic, perhaps 2.5x2.5?)

Just started a project with 5mm Heroics & Ros Napoleonic figures. Looked at a 3" x 3" base size first but seems rather large for the amount of castings I wanted to put on a base. The 2" x 2" size is much more visually appealing. Don't know yet if I reduce the distances by 1/3.

Hi!

I tried 40mm square bases with OG 10mm stuff- three strips per base. The biggest problem with using such a small base is placing casualty counters onto them- there's really not much space to do so. I had problems with labeling these small bases- at the Might and Reason game at HISTORICON I saw an excellent way of doing this though, by printing off color coded unit identifiers and glueing them underneath the base with a little tab sticking out. FPGA makes unit tabs sort of besides the point anyway: a little dab of color works just as well…

Anyways, I think a much better effect is achieved with taking four strips of infantry in two rows on a 2" square base and placing a single command strip out in front of them. Historically accurate? Not quite- looks really, really good though. And now that OG 10s are cheap as dirt, it's a very economical basing too.

Of course, the reason I did 40mm basing was really to require as small a playing area as possible. 2 inch bases take more space. In anycase I got rid of the 10mm stuff at HISTORICON. 10mm stuff is a nightmare to paint, IMHO. It's got just enough detail where you can't slop-paint it like a 6mm mini, and yet so many minis are required to play that the thousands of dots required for an army becomes physically agonizing. Now I'm doing 15mm with three figs on a 20mm base. Four of these can be put together for a half-scale GA base, or sabot based on a two inch base (or three inch). My cavalry are on 40mm bases, and my arty as well (all to do Shako and GA, and V&B for that matter, if I ever feel like it!).

And now as I sit here thinking on it, I sort of ponder buying some 6mm minis to base up on 40mm bases so as to have a fast-painted-fast-play GA army around while working on my 15s….. an entire Napoleonic army in a tackle box and for under fifty bucks? Now that's an idea I might be able to get down with…

I have magnetized my figs that were based for Nappy's Battles and use them on magnetized 3" bases for GA. I could do the same for two inch bases.

I have mine on 3 plus inch bases as I have a Saxon Corps that was mounted too big to put two stands side by side on the base. I think I am the only one in the world with 3 1/4 inch bases. I also use six Napoleons Battle stands to a base (15mm). The new 6mm and 10mm stuff I am doing will be done on 2 by 2 or 40mm as I have everything I would ever need in 15mm to do any battle so I am now looking at doing some 10mm and 6mm in different mounting just to justify collecting them.
VR
James Mattes

Don't feel too bad about adjusting the size of your bases to odd sizes. I finally decided to go to 2 1/4 inch. I'm using 2mm for the realistic scale and 2 1/4 inch allows me to form multi regiment brigades. After reviewing some of George Nafziger's orbats ( OOBs ), I noticed that some brigades had as many as 5 regiments. As I plan to make brigades devoted solely to specific battles as well as generic brigades to use in any battle, the 2 1/4 inch was perfect. If I play against someone with 2" bases, well what's 1 1/4" amongst friends.

Smaller bases fit on hills better. I find 3" bases a bit wobbly on my geo-hex slopes.

Dear Forum,

All of my painted 15mm Napoleonics' miniature figures are based for "EMPIRE"(they all have been that way for almost thirty years' of Napoleonic wargaming!), I would like very much to start playing "Grande Armee", as I have recently viewed Sam Mustafa's "fast play rules' version of "Grande Armee"!

Can I play "Grande Armee", without re-basing any of my painted 15mm Napoleonic figures, which are based for "Empire"? Can anyone tell me what would be the best way to form up my 15mm Napoleonics to play "fast play rules for Grande Armee"?

I have over 12,000 painted 15mm Napoleonic miniature figures, which are all based for "Empire"…..so, I think I have enough "figures" to play "Grande Armee", just want to get an understanding of any depth conversions or "basing considerations", to allow my 15mms to conform to "Grande Armee" rules, for play.

I seriously look forward to reading all replies, I think "Grande Armee", is worth serious study and consideration!

Would like to find other "Grande Armee" wargamers in the Richmond, VA. area, to wargame with of course!

Sincerely,
wayneempire

Wayne Hamilton
Richmond, VA.

wayne:

As for as the rules go, it doesnt matter how many figures are on each base or how they are arraged; that is all a matter of esthetics -- whatever looks good.

As I mentioned above, I fit one Empire infantry battalion of 15mm figures on each 2x2 GA base. With 3x3 bases you can get two such battalions staggered diagonally, simulating the checkerboard formation of battalions often used in that period. This, of course, requires having twice as many figures, but it sounds like you have plenty of them!

Wayne,

It's Mike P from the group. I tried to tell you about Grande Armee last year(ya stubborn goat).

I have 10 French Corps and a couple cavalry corps. Working on the Spanish and British. I went with 6mm on 1 inch square basing. cm for measurement. I know it is small but I have a small table. Yet, on this tiny table I can do Leipzig with room to spare.

I also have been kicking around the idea of putting my old 15s on 1 1/2" bases and going half scale. I am not really worried about the "mass" look, and I feel the 1/2 scale GA will sufffice for space saving.

Email me and maybe we can start a new GA project.

My suggestion would be 60mm squares, then just use 2cm units instead of inches.

60mm is also compatible with V&B, Horse, Foot Guns, Polemos, and Shako.

I use 40mm GW bases. Baccus 6mm figs work great on these bases. I use the same number of strips of infantry or cavalry as the units strenght number, which helps during the game. Also the raised base allows you to paint the unit's name onto the back of the base without disrupting the little diorama.

I think you will probably need to see games played out with both 2" and 3". As mentioned above, 2" allows you to play significantly larger battles in a restricted space. For some people space isn't a problem. Take a look at the different systems, look at your constraints, and then take a decision.

Here are some Adler 6mm figures based on 3" tiles

link

WARNING! Adler infantry are a pig to base as you have to cut them individually from the strips before basing. This really is a pain.

Here are some baccus minis on 2" tiles

Russian Cavalry

link

French Cavalry

link

French Old Guard infantry

link

Austrian infantry

link

Enjoy!

Neil
reinforcementsbypost.com

Wayne are you on the GA yahoo group?
VR
James Mattes

Dear James,

Here is a list of Napoleonic Discussion Groups, that I visit:

Delphi Napoleonic Wars' Forum
Empire/ on Yahoo, although I do not own nor play Todd Fischer's more recent "Empire/Revolutionary Wars" edition, they sometimes discuss the 1991 edition of "Empire", which I still play.
The "Armchair General's" websites…have a friend who is on the editorial board.
This website/ "TMP".

Bedridden with flu, upon returning home from "Fall-In!" '2007, last Sunday night(11/11/2007)….recovering slowly…..will send my "after convention after-action comments" to Jim McWee & cc to you, in a few days….will be pro-active and constructive in my report…..waiting for the rooms in my house to stop spinning.

Regards from Richmond,
Wayne Hamilton
"wayneempire"

I'd like to send an e-mail to Don Lowry, the former publisher of Campaigns Magazine. Does anyone have his e-mail?

Newalmadendave@aol.com

We used 2x2 basing and 2/3rd scale measurements for our GA games…

I use 2" x 2" with my Adlers (8mm scale, really). It lets me use a 6 x 4 feet table and still use the playing area equivalent of a 9 x 6. And yes its all very affordable, esp as most of a base really should be empty space. Its also much easier to store, taking up a lot less drawer space.

You can see some of them in some earlier club games in the files section here:

link

There are two Borodino games featured using Adlers on 2" bases, 6x 4 terrain. Might be more in there somewhere, feel free to browse!

These were Volley and Bayonet games, but GA uses the same basing, and is the standard alternative to 3" basing. 2" basing can be used all over the place in higher level games. Polemos for example.

If you have a look at this link, some of the photos on the site use half scale (1.5") basing, and even "cms" basing ( 3cms x 3cms). Ive played games at this scale, Shiloh went on a small kitchen table no problem at all, but it all looked far too small and fiddly for my personal taste.

link

Go for 2" x 2" for your 6mm figures, and 3" x 3" only if you are using 15mm – you wont regret it.

Kind regards

Geoff

"WARNING! Adler infantry are a pig to base as you have to cut them individually from the strips before basing. This really is a pain."

Most of my armies use the four-abreast strips for infantry. I use them in fours for lines/mixte or half them into twos for columns when mounted on the base. Its not been an issue for me, and I have loads & loads of Adlers.

Geoff

"Most of my armies use the four-abreast strips for infantry"

I didn't think Adler came in abreast strips, my Baccus do and are 4 in a 20mm wide strip.

Mick

I have been thinking this over for quite a while, and decided to go 3x3 bases for my baccus 6mm. I want big battalions and will have two infantry battalions to a base (a 'standard' regiment) with skirmishers out front, in line or column. So between 100 – 110 men per base.

Cavalry between 27 – 36 depending of type.