Editor in Chief Bill | 04 Jun 2006 5:54 p.m. PST |
Looks like most people feel that Plaster of Paris (PoP) is too soft for wargame purposes, but a minority say it works fine for them. For those who are getting PoP to work for them: Any special tricks? Are you using a thicker mix? Any particular sealer or coating afterwards? Or are you simply using PoP for applications where durability isn't an issue? For example, a static diorama involves a lot less wear-and-tear than a modular dungeon where pieces get knocked about
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Michael Cannon | 04 Jun 2006 6:19 p.m. PST |
I think the issue is not even the "knocking about"
it's just the durability of PoP. I did my first piece from a Hirst mold out of PoP and was disappointed in several particulars. The PoP did not mix and flow well. It also did not give me the detail I had hoped for. Finally, I picked up a piece and it came apart in my hands. Hydrostone or Excalibur (which I use) is magnitudes better. |
Gwart loves Bill | 04 Jun 2006 6:29 p.m. PST |
different PoP have different strengths, dental plaster is stonger than 'hobby' PoP, also mixing PoP correctly is vital (tepid water, add the PoP slowly). To increase the strength/rigidity add metal bars, wire mesh etc. |
Chthoniid | 04 Jun 2006 7:03 p.m. PST |
Hi: I mix up the plaster with acrylic medium and water. This seems to work quite well at adding in some flex and durability. Otherwise the plaster is simply too soft and brittle. Chthonic regards B |
Tom Bryant | 04 Jun 2006 7:11 p.m. PST |
redzed has it correct. From my cub scout days I remember making castings that we painted up and in order to make a good casting you needed to use lukewarm water and slowly add the plaster to the mix. We usually used a fork to mix it with. I've often thought of using Plaster of Paris for buildings. Knowing its not the most durable material I was thinking about adding some paper pulp to the mix to see if that would stiffen it up at all. It's something to try. The wire mesh or even nylon mesh screen material should work fine to strengthen the plaster. |
ming31 | 04 Jun 2006 7:21 p.m. PST |
Hirst arts recommends dental plaster cause it is durable |
Site 8 | 04 Jun 2006 7:57 p.m. PST |
I use PoP for large custom molds and dental stone for smaller fiddly bits(its cheaper and lighter to combine and it paints up the same). PoP is great once you get the hang of it. Correct mixing and drying is the key. Just ask Zardoz, he has a good explaination on mixing link And again a Hirst link for drying. I think his instructions are mainly used for drying Dental plaster which is much more forgiving than PoP. Its very easy to over dry PoP so if you use your oven I would open it up every once in a while to allow the moisture to escape. link You could also fire up the barby, cook some ribs and dry your blocks when the coals start burning down. |
Goldwyrm | 04 Jun 2006 8:20 p.m. PST |
I use dental plaster but Chthoniid has a good idea with adding acrylic medium to PoP. I've read elsewhere people using white glue or other binding additives when mixing up the PoP to give it more strength. |
Jana Wang | 04 Jun 2006 8:31 p.m. PST |
I've been using plain PoP for about 5 years with the Hirst molds. I find that if I mix it in small batches and don't make it too thin, I get good results. The bricks are not too chalky and they are reasonably durable. I've built enough 'dungeon' to cover a 3x5 foot table and a couple of times a year we bring it out and spend a night or two opening doors and killing monsters. I haven't had problems with the dungeon bits on the tabletop. Once they are set up they really don't get "knocked about". Yes, if you drop it on the floor, something breaks off. But a spot of craft glue and it's fine. I don't have problems with players who throw dice, pound the tabletop, or otherwise disrespect my terrain. If you do, then yeah, you may want to look at something sturdier. What I do get is occasional chipping. Corners, fragile spires, that sort of thing. There are some ways you don't want to build because it's just not sturdy, and it's not because of the PoP, there just isn't the surface area to hold the glue. Most of the chipping problems I fixed by getting better storage boxes. I no longer stack pieces that aren't flat, for example, I have shallow bins to keep pieces one layer deep. I also started spraycoating finished pieces (standard gloss and dull coats) and that helped a lot. When we're done with the game I inspect everything and do touch-ups if required, and put it away. It's a non-issue for me. I use my PoP dungeon at home, and I've taken it to a few local cons for D&D demos. It's been fine, really. By comparison, Mr. Hirst and some others take theirs to GenCon where they get a lot more 'wear and tear' from the general public as hundreds of people handle the pieces, never mind the jiggling and bouncing and bumping during transit. Under those conditions the specialty plasters are certainly going to be more durable. I believe "Merlin's Magic" is the current favorite, and one called "Excalibur" is also good. A 50lb box is about $50 USD shipped, which is pretty cheap. I went ahead and ordered a box, just so I don't have to mess with 1lb buckets from the hobby shop, which was always out when I needed a new one. |
Gungnir | 05 Jun 2006 12:16 a.m. PST |
I only use PoP. Yes, it does depend a lot on the mix, as was said above, don't make the batter too thin. On the other hand, the results of a too thick batter can be seen here: link Still, want not, waste not
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Mark Plant | 05 Jun 2006 1:51 a.m. PST |
Mixing in colour powder (black generally) so that any chips don't show as pure white is also an option. |
Sue Kes | 05 Jun 2006 3:24 a.m. PST |
I'd recommend dental plaster with white pva glue mixed in – dissolve this thoroughly in the (slightly warm) water first, before adding the plaster. Put in enough pva glue to make the water look like milk. Makes a much more durable end product. Sue K. |
rebmarine | 05 Jun 2006 5:11 a.m. PST |
I've had great success with "Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty." It's available at Ace Hardware stores. Mix it to a consistency slightly thinner than a milk shake and pour. Very durable unless the piece your making is very thin and then it becomes brittle. |
phililphall | 05 Jun 2006 5:54 a.m. PST |
I recall seeing a powder you mixed with PoP to make it much harder. This was at a local craft store many moons ago. They sold rubber molds of friezes, such as the Last Supper that you could paint. Most of the molds were very shallow and straight PoP wouldn't have worked. Try checking with a craft store near you. It may no longer be in production, and as I'm getting much to old, I can't remember the name of the product. |
Aric Watson | 05 Jun 2006 8:12 a.m. PST |
I use the rock hard water putty as well- it's pretty durable and easy to use
Not sure how it compares price-wise to PoP. I recently accidentally knocked a piece off a table top to the (hard tile) floor and all that happened was a little piece off a corner broke off. |
SteveJ | 05 Jun 2006 9:35 a.m. PST |
Considering the availability and cheapness of quality plasters nowadays, there really is no good reason to use POP. As for adding dyes to the mix, I've tried with much harder plasters and it definitely weakens them. I shudder to think what the effects would be on POP. |
Meiczyslaw | 05 Jun 2006 10:07 a.m. PST |
What I use: dickblick.com/zz335/25 I haven't had any problems with my molds. (Well, except air bubbles, but that's my fault for not putting together a shaker board.) |
GildasFacit | 05 Jun 2006 10:15 a.m. PST |
Hi Ed Try this link tiranti.co.uk/indexhome.asp Go to Products > Casting > Plaster It is a UK supplier but it lists some of the commonly available plasters and the 'plaster polymer' additive to give greater strength. In my experience only the stone plasters are hard enough for your uses and these do get a bit stronger (and tougher) with addition of 2-5% of PVA to the mixing water. The drawback is that they take a good deal longer to dry. Some of the very hard plasters are VERY hard but also very sensitive to mixing ratios. Get the wrong ratio and they stay hard but loose toughness and go brittle. Tony H |
Editor in Chief Bill | 08 Jun 2006 9:36 a.m. PST |
What I use: dickblick.com/zz335/25 Interesting, though almost the same price as the dental plasters. (Though you don't need to buy it in 25 or 50 lb lots
) |
Meiczyslaw | 08 Jun 2006 4:49 p.m. PST |
It's also easy for me to get, as Michael's carries it, and there's one right down the street. |
RastlWorld | 16 Sep 2006 8:58 p.m. PST |
I used to use Merlin's Magic but have switched to Hydrostone. Cheaper and available locally. The plaster mix isn't as dense but seems to harden up just fine. Details are nice and crisp. |
TERRAFEX | 18 Sep 2006 5:05 p.m. PST |
3d dungeon. Has anybody out there seen the stuff on dungeon systems. I'm want to get my hands on this stuff but want to know if anyone has got a set? Please let me know if this stuff is as go as it looks. |
paladin chris | 19 Sep 2006 10:46 a.m. PST |
okay, it's been a while since i've tried this, so i'm not sure if it really works
. but
Sugar. I think I read once that if you add sugar and hot water to the PoP, it hardens it a fair bit. but like i said, im not sure if that works
but it is cheap! |
Luke Mulder | 20 Oct 2006 1:10 p.m. PST |
If you want harder Gypsum (Plaster of Paris), you probably want to order Hydrostone, or some such plaster made nowadays especially for sculpting. It is way harder than traditional gypsum. I use gypsum by the sackfull, but only the pure calxed gypsum, or the old-time stuff. There are several methods for hardening set gypsum. The first is to brush on a solution fo three or four parts water to one part vinegar several times. Others methods are to brush on hot glue or hot linseed oil onto your gypsum (Called Plaster of Paris by school children). As for sugar, that is probably going to retard your setting time. I have never heard of that one before, but people often add glue to the gypsum sopa, or liquid gypsum, to make "Gluegesso". This prolongs the working time and the surface can be harder, but one should not attempt to apply gluegesso in thick layers. |
frankthedm | 02 Dec 2008 12:43 p.m. PST |
Anyone here tried mixing PVA / white glue and sand? |
Last Hussar | 31 Dec 2015 5:03 a.m. PST |
Resurrection time! Is this stuff any good for Linka? |
Sgt Slag | 31 Dec 2015 7:44 a.m. PST |
There are different types of plaster of paris available. Check out the Hirst Arts casting instructions web page for relevant information on plaster types. If I remember correctly, Linka made rubber molds for casting, many years ago. The plaster types recommended by Hirst Arts should work the same in Linka molds, as they do in Hirst Arts molds. Cheers! |
Last Hussar | 31 Dec 2015 7:44 a.m. PST |
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Sgt Slag | 31 Dec 2015 7:52 a.m. PST |
Sorry, no idea. First time I've seen this product, and they only have two reviews on that site. Try a Google search on the product, for additional reviews. You could also try contacting the maker, by e-mail, or telephone, and ask questions. Best of luck. Cheers! |
Bob Runnicles | 07 Jan 2016 9:01 a.m. PST |
I just use regular plaster of paris and with a little care I've never had any problems using my creations in games. |