"What do you want in a Sci-Fi Miniatures Game?" Topic

Some recent topics have got me to thinking what I really want in a Sci-Fi game. So I'm asking the question to all of you?

If you could have whatever you wanted in a Sci-Fi set of rules, what would it be?

Some of my wants are:
1. Rules designed for 15mm Sci-Fi figs.
2. Realistic representation of weapon ranges.
3. Rules that promote a "realistic" (read: Modern) command and control feel to the game.
4. Full TO&Es for forces, and rules to help you design your own.
5. Ability to design your own units.
6. Rules for campaigning, ie. unit experience.
7. Aliens that truely act alien, no 'man in suit'.
8. ORBITAL BOMBARDMENT / Good artilery rules.
9. Rules that are fast play and written clearly.
10. Rules / Guidelines for creating good scenerios.
11. Something other than a Point System to help balance pick-up games.
12. Morale rules that reflect actual combat, (read: Based on modern combat).

Let me know your thoughts.

Thanks,

Joe.

I'm going to beat Judas Iscariot to the punch on this one. Almost everything on your list has already been done by a system called Striker.

That felt good.

I want a game that does not favor chainswords or other foolish hand weapons. Like Han Solo says Give me a blaster any day.

What I want from a SF game?
Not feeling like a rape victim when I leave the cash register. Not having to sell plasma to buy all the extra books that will come out in the months to follow. Not having the figures change in 3 years and look nothing at all like what my wallet has strained to collect. Not having some snotty little 11 year old with a silver army whup my backside all over the table and then try to give give me some pointers. Oh, did I go off topic.

Sounds like I want a good rule set from a company that doesn't market the figures as well. Might turn out to be a decent game at that. Sorry for the rant, but I was about to bust. This could have easily been a post to the " Why to play mostly historicals" topic.

Clambo,… I admit Striker was a good game. But it's OOP and, to me, it was anything but Fast Play. That is a matter of taste.

BTW, the topic is what do YOU want in a rules set. I gave my wants as examples. I am under no illusion that my wants are what everyone wants.

So Clambo, what do YOU want in a SCI-FI rules set?

Simple rules, quick play, and future armor that doesn't look like modified existing armor.

A smooth interface between ground and fleet units would be nice too.

I like Striker, but two things that bug me…

1. I want to be able to use single based figures…

2. I don't want to have a bloody PhD to design vehicles!

"…and future armor that doesn't look like modified existing armor."

Well, the alien stuff is 40K definitely avoids this trap – the Tau, Eldar and Dark Eldar vehicles don't look anything like modified existing armour. If you're not going to play 40K, just get some Tau or Eldar and call them whatever you like :)

…'IN 40K', not 'is 40K' – sorry.

Simple rules, quick to play, yet give a pretty good tactical feel etc. Not bucketfulls of dice either. Limited if any close comabt – certainly not chainsaws – unless used by pirates/other ship boarding first wave troops where weapons like that and small firearms would be a plus. The ability to use any figures I like. The ability to use it at 28mm for skirmish, 15mm for larger games and 6mm for massive armour games. A good campaign system.

Not much here that I could disagree with.

A game that is universal and generic but has a build system to flavor units to taste.

Simple, fast, and fun and can handle around 60 miniatures on the table and be resloved in around 2-3 hours.

A game that stimulates creativity rather than stifling it by exclusive miniatures and fluff.

Easily balanced armies among friends, not being geared towards tournament play.

Personally I'm thinking about Thermonuclear Pulp these days as the pulp systems seem to favor what I'm looking for.

Doggone it, I want Star Wars.

I want blasters and light sabers, I want bar room brawls and ducking the view of the police. I want dogfighting and bullseyeing wamp rats and diving down the meridian trench on the Death Star. I want evading my way through an asteroid belt. I want fleet assets to combine with fighters, to combine with tanks and ground troops, to combine with one plucky girl and the hero she hangs onto.

I want something that is a little less shallow than the Hasbro game we have offered to us today.

Hello!

I want a game that is fast and fun to play, easy to learn, playable in no more than 2 or 3 hours, generic enough to use with any miniatures available, where CC weapons would be a last resort. A game that can run smooth at skirmish level as well as giant battles, where you can use off table artillery and bombardments and where you could play simultaneously a fleet combat as well as a ground combat (do you imagine your army boarding a spaceship, capturing it only to see your opponent destroy it with his other spaceship to finish your boarding party?). A game balanced wich allows you to create your own army with your own fluff or use an existing one if you're lazy enough. I think that is all.

I forget one more thing…
it should be free (wouldn't it be too much?) :-P

Greetings,
Recrispi01

I think Stargrunt II gave me everything I wanted except that it doesn't scale down to a true-skirmish scale with a half-dozen models per side, and no good feel for aliens.

may I do a shameless plug?

Future Nexus has ALMOST all you want… ok the unit list is still a little short, but the construction rules will allow you to build whatever your heart desires. Yes we did build the wheelchair, but I have so far been a little gun shy about the system defense network. Though I fear soon I will have to… for plot reasons

So what can you do? Ranges… well, a 1500 meter range gun translates to 150 cm on the table top. (If you don't have that kind of real estate there is guidance to cutting the range to "playable" ranges)

Another issue, which is counter intuitive to some folks… see taking cover behind that pile of rubble does not necessarily mean I cannot acquire you and SHOOT you… why? If we can do this today, why not in the 35th century. Oh and smart weapons do EXIST, as well as Naval Weapons and the ever so unbalancing nukes. The last ones use them at your own risk because I don't pretend they are balanced. Then again, they should not, but that is my opinion.

Now the game is mostly RPG, and the tactical component was put in there for those folks who want to push lead. What did I use to develop this? Can you say 1\144 modern armor? I highly recommend using DLD 15 mm for your models, or 1\144 modern armor. The Merkavas without threads have that look of ContraGrav tanks that work, as well as the Challengers and the Panther II, and if you want to use your FOW… hey go for it. In fact I might as well use my Tigers for some of the tanks

The design philosophy insofar as equipment is concerned does not include the crazy… 1 main gun, 3 machine guns and a missile system or two… but if that is your taste in design, go for it. The system will allow you to do it.

Oh did I mention I am not producing minis? I might, two to three years down the road, but for the moment we have not… though I am thinking of putting cardboard counterrs and hex maps for those who truly do not have the space for a full blown war game… yes tested the theory, and as long as you do 1:1 it works.

I know I don't fully fit the bill, but I think I can close …

;-)

deistgames.com

I also know that most war gamers have an ideal game in mind, but for the most part it is almost impossible to find.

As to the Aliens…. some you will not be able to use t hem on the tabletop, psychic warriors are not easy to translate… but some use Drones and mass formations of inferior species… with some leaders trying to control them. Though they are just being put together, in the Alien book. Oh and the weapons in the RPG almost translate 1:1 to the War Game.

I'll admit though I had to surrender and do this with points to balance forces, mostly it is expected but in the next two years, as we develop the full blown tactical game, I will consider once again OTHER methods of balancing forces.

Science.

Military Science built on what we know, it does seem to work.

Physics, Chemistry, etc as that is how the universe seems to work.

In a word, Striker. Striker could play fast, as long as the players understood that time was against them and that a PLAN was an absolute necessity.

The design function was there if you wanted it, you could always assign values.

So what people want is.

Everything and then some….for free.

I'd like to see a game with some personality. Where combat is not just modern stuff with a couple of new weapons options, but uses all the tech the species is supposed to have invented by that time. Doesn't have to be watered down generic pulp so I can stat out crazy stuff. Just enough options in the rules and force lists to be able to say, "that counts as that".

Try Star Guard. It's still around. It's fast, skirmish based. Players are able to easily create their own forces, as well as setting up armies from the StarGuard universe.

1. Whatever I can get for free/cheapest
2. What are you offering…
3. More….
4. Tentacles…lots and lots of…tentacles… 8-)

All of my ranting from yesterday aside, (I've just had my coffee and am in a better dispostion) if we are talking about 15mm, I'd like to see a system where the basic unit is the fire team, 3-4 on a stand, with support wpns on a separate stand. Plt leaders and higher could be mounted individually.

As far as the rules go, I'd like combined fire and tactics to matter, not just throwing a bunch of D6's. One roll, maybe a simple chart with a D20 for some variables. No armor saves, just figure it all into one roll. Some weapons would just vaporize you anyway.

Vehicle combat I would like to be a little more detailed, with standard vehicles. Not a lot of custom options. Armed forces generally don't authorize changes to battle tanks anyway.

I want the snotty little 11 year old with the silver army to win because he out generaled me not because he built a killer army list or came out better on his bucket full o' dice.

I am not familiar with a lot of other SF rules so there may be some out there that fit this description or close to it already.

"Everything and then some….for free."

Yes, that's it, almost. Don't forget to also make it a Sci-fi game that attractive women will want to play with geeky gamers.

I would like a game system with a campaign component that covers starships, a large surface battle component that covers microarmor up to 15mm scales, a tactical skirmish component that covers 15mm up to 28mm, and a roleplaying character advancement component that ties back into all the other components. I should be able to take a character like a general or hero through all the various levels of play. I should be able to play out a campaign and at some point switch down to the lower level rules by choice instead of rolling a result on a chart and then reapplying the tactical result back into the campaign.

Tech can be whatever but I like the way it was represented in the original WH40K Rogue Trader. Something open ended for creating new model archetypes and equipment.

ROTFLOL

Thank you Clambo…

For those who do not think that Striker is a fast play system…

you have not seen me run a game.

If the players know how to play, and the ref does his job… The game runs as fast as any other I have seen…

The only thing that can slow down a game is the writing of orders, and this can be sped up by using a chess timer, which I suggest…

As for a game system that will make women want to play it with Geeky men… I wouldn't know about that… I may be somewhat mentally on the geeky side, but have been more of a rock star than a gamer for the last two decades (well, at least when I was a rock star… Now I am just a has been rock star… I still have the look but the band is dead)…

Back to the game though… If I get off my ass with Striker III (Revisionist Rules for playtest to be finished by June 1st) then it will eventually cover everything listed on the qualifications that were posted… Maybe not all in the initial rules, but I am planning to have Striker III developed to have multiple expansions, modules, supplements, scenarios, etc… Most games COULD do something like that, but few do… Mongoose seems to be doing quite well in this regard.

I will offer another shameless plug

Check Future Nexus, it is new, and it was designed by a woman… by the way it does take into account leading edge developments including the fact that all troops are single based. Why? In the modern battlefield with modern Commo Systms, only very green troops need coherency… in the future that will get worst.

Or better, depending on your point of view

;-)

As to atracting women to the hobby, maybe I am lucky but locally we have qutie a few… treat them right… they will try.

I'd like a set of sf rules that emerge from an integrated background that:

Provides a justification for armoured land warfare in an inter-planetary campaign (otherwise orbital supremacy leads to asymmetric warfare, which is a little limited as a spectacle);

Creates genuinely innovative alien races that are fun to play. So not just slightly altered humans or mindless cannon fodder e.g. robots or hive mind insects;

Is internally consistent, though not necessarily with the world as we experience it. Realism is fine though I'd be happy with fantastic though coherent in relation to the far future or distance parts of the galaxy. However, if hand-to-hand combat is a viable strategy to distance weapons there should be an adequate justification (e.g. because the combatants don't want to seriously harm their environment, such as on a space ship, or the protective technology favours it, such as the kinetic shields in Dune).

In addition, I'd like the rule set to:

Provide a fast game (i.e. two hours for a sixty unit game);

Offers a sufficient range of qualities to make a number of strategic and tactical approaches feasible (though not necessarily all equally viable to all sides/races);

Focuses the player's decision making on command, control and communication factors but without the need for ambiguous written orders, excessive book-keeping or many extraneous markers on the table.

A small order but I'm sure someone's working on it!

@nadin brzezinski
Your description of your product sounds interesting. May I suggest a five page preview?

I never saw the vehicle design system in Striker as a drawback and with the Internet it's even less of one. I liked taking out a ruler and measuring some Roco Minitank I'd cut up, or some Martian Metals Grav tank. Calculate the volume and then play with different trade offs in the design.

Now with the internet you can always find someone elses design . There's always some nerd who likes the design process.

What I'm looking for is the ability to play a company sized game in under three hours with 15mm. I'm working toward using movement trays and modified Stargrunt II rules which speed up play. Too much time is spent in Stargrunt finessing troops around. Keep the players off balance and the game moving.

I could give you a Company sized game in between three and four hours with Striker…

It just takes a GM and Players who are committed to learning the rules… and that thing that most gamers just cringe at doing… Creating a plan that is rigid enough to hold together on a battlefield, but flexible enough to be able to take advantages on the battlefield that are presented…

We had a ninety page preview at one point concentrating on the RPG side of the house.

I might do the preview to the combat system