"Best Franco Prussian War ruleset??" Topic

Thanks to the recent posts by Perris 0707, I've decided to build a couple armies from my favorite conflict and let 'em go at it. Whats the best ruleset and also where can I buy it. I started looking for the 1870 ruleset online but haven't had any luck yet.
BTW I bought a bag of the Old Glory 15mm French Line skirmishing and they look great. Lots of poses, and some nice sculpting detail. If you're thinking about buying some 15mm's I highly recommend the Old Glory range.

Thanks,
Jason Danio

Greetings...

Although 1870 was written (pretty much) for Heroics & Ros 6mm figs, there is an option for 15mm figs in there.

If you are looking for a copy (although you can't order online yet) I know we had at least 1 copy on the shelf at Attactix on Friday. Give us a call or Email if you are interested.

Bill Winski

Attactix
303.699.3349 voice
303.699.3428 fax
888.732.6321 toll-free in continental U.S.
bill@attactix.com

I like to use Volley & Bayonet. The original ruleset had a scenario for St. Privat and there are several other scenarios for FPW available at link

A bunch of people use the Fire and Fury ACW ruleset with modifications for FPW. One such modification is here:
link

1870 was already mentioned. Even if you decide not to use 1870, you should pick up a copy as it has a lot of info about the war, weapons, and tactics.

I believe the Principles of War game system covers FPW as well.

All the above are for larger battles, as each unit on the table represents a regiment (ie – 3 battalions, or 2000-3000 men). If you want to fight at battalion level there's They Died for Glory (20 figures in a Prussian battalion, 12 in a French [2nd edition organization]). Larry Brom recently re-released "Chassepot and Needle Gun". I have an old, out-of-print set of rules called "In the Age of Bismarck and Napoleon III" which was really an army-level game that happened to use battalions (6 figures in a French battalion, 8 figs in a Prussian). I was just at Cold Wars and saw 3 other sets of rules (1 fast play, 2 "really old" sets like Tac-50) but none of them looked very good.

--Dave

Whoops – missed one. Here's a link to a FPW variant for Games Workshop's Warmaster rules:
link

By the way – you asked what was the "best" ruleset. None of them are "best". All the above I mentioned give a good game – it depends on what you are looking for. V&B and They Died for Glory are fairly simple, use D6, very rudimentary command-control rules. 1870 is heavy on giving units order "chits" and activating units. Fire and Fury is "in between".

--Dave

Piquet just released a new supplement, Hallowed Ground II, that covers the FPW. Although I haven't played it yet (I just got it Friday) it seems to have some rather nice additions that I am eager to try for the FPW. Of course, this presupposes that you like the Piquet system. More than most rules, Piquet seems a "love-it or hate-it" type. I love it, so obviously I'd really recommend HG2!

Of course, for real army level actions, you might want to give the Phil Barker "Horse, Foot and Guns" rules a try. They are still in playtest so the deployment rules will probably be tweaked a bit, but the upside is that you can download the current version free from his site. Again, I haven't tried HFG for the FPW (I'm not being much use here am I? :). I have tried HFG for the SYW and for Napoleonics and I was rather taken with them.

For large scale games, I'd go with HFG. For battalion level actions, I'd prefer Piquet. (And yes, I am aware that HG2 can now scale up to corps level battles).

My opinions naturally.

I'll second the Fire and Fury variant idea. We also use it for the other Hyphenated Wars. Each stand is 200 foot, 150 cavalry or 1 Battery of artillery.

Depends what you want from a game. We use Principles of War which works out as 3 stands of troops to an infantry battalion/cavalry regiment and allows a division sized game to be played in an evening or a corps sized game (multi-player) in a day. It fits in with 1870 quite well in that you can use a Principles of War battalion (3 stands) as an 1870 regiment - one of the reasons I went for the system. I admit I haven't tried 1870 yet.

Even if you don't play 1870, the rules book is worth having if only for the reference material, OoBs, maps, and bibliography.

I have to say Piquet HG2, HG1 was good but the new one is awesome, and at least you will have fun playing a game.
Dont know about 1870, was going to get it awhile back but could never find a copy so i got PK and now I could care less about anything else, IGOUGO systems are just so unreal and retarted anymore-IMHO.

Jason,

I second the opinion that even if you never played 1870 you should get it as a resource! Bruce Weigle's website is: www.mediaevalmisc.com/gtr/

I bought these rules even though I prefer Nick Dorell's "Fire and Furia Francese" rules found online at the site listed above. I like these for many reasons, visual appeal for one, but mainly because I can fight regimental level battles. However, because of the variable base scale I can also break down regiments into battalions if I want to.
Also, if you liked the the new French Line infantry bags, I am also re-doing the Prussian Line bags. I have got 24 new poses done and am now working on the new command bag. They will be available very soon! I uploaded scans of the masters to the "Blood and Iron" Yahoo newsgroup on Saturday if you want a sneak preview.

Thanks for your comments!

Perris

Jason,

Just browsing on ebay and lo and behold there is an "1870" ruleset up for auction!!! It is item #3119433922 and is up right now for $9.99 - a real bargain as it is a great resource even if you never game it! The bibliography is awesome! The auction ends in 20 hours so I hope you get this post.

Perris

Thanks for all the info gang!! Lots to think about. I'm so glad to see that there are a lot of us interested in the Franco-Prussian war. :)

I have played my first game using "1870" with 15mm two weeks ago. We played the battle of Weissenburg. I cannot recommend these rules highly enough. They are very playable and realistic. One turn equals 30 minutes which is about as much time as you need to complete the turn in real life.

Michael

Larry Brom's " Chassepot & Needlegun" are my favorite. A Prussian batt. has 24 figs & French 18. These are simple, easy to learn with a good feel for the period.I think the new OG 15mm will be perfect for these rules.

Hello Bazaines Revenge! i have several sets. most fun and my old standby is Chassepot and Needlegun by Larry Brom.its simple and playable...second print is now available. i have enjoyed Died for Glory and also have a copy of 1870. that is one piece of work,reference wise. havent had chance to play it yet. i too use 15s.all three are great sets. good gaming

I need a rule set that works with a smaller table. Mr. Brom's Rules are fine for a club with a table big enough for Leipzig. 1870 is great for a convention: alhough, I have never met Mr. Weigle's gentlemen wargamer in the USA. I think he is a myth. They Died for Glory are nice, if you want to make up a simple battle and don't care about history because even it's scenarios are too large using the bn sizes recomended. No one details Brigade attacks in larger battles. And yes, I have a copy of F&FF.

So Black Powder allows cavalry to actually attack and destroy FPW infantry, as I have read here on the TMP, which is ridiculous. So there remains Rank and File which no one has commented about in the context of the FPW. Civil War yes, FPW no.

So where do I go to find this snippet of information before I lay money down on another set of rules that may end up in the junk box.

You could go with Piquet's Field of Battle. It covers FPW very well and you don't need a 1000 figures to play.

I like 'Field of Battle' and also 'Die Fighting' by Bob Jones which is similar in some ways.
link

I game 15mm and have just bought Neil Thomas' ruleset 'Wargaming C19th in Europe' (or something like that). An easy-peasy-lemon-squeezy set that you can get beginners hooked on quickly yet which still produce realistic results. No figure scale, just units: 4 stands each for an Inf/Cav unit, 2 for a skirmisher and one for a gun (recommended base width 40mm, depth not specified but I actually use 30mm x 15mm as my chaps are based for POW). He includes a whole load of scenarios based on 4 feet x 3 feet tables (and some on 2 x 2) so that would help you.

I've gamed 1866 (the sister set to 1870) which is great if you've got period keenos who are prepared to invest time in learning its nuances. Buy 1859, 1866 & 1870 anyway as they're fantastic research resources.

Principles of War is safe & sound.

Zouave II is also an interesting set.

1870 for much history and more complex rules. There is now a fast-play version in the works, maybe done now.

For good flavor, faster playing, battalion-level game, we are actively playtesting Neal Thomas' 19th C. rules on 15mm, and find they work well.

Like all NT rules [and many British in general], they are not quite finished and many important mechanics of the units need to be decided upon. Fortunately, we have much experience with that! If you want a good summary, the best I've found on line is here: link

you can also try the Yahoo group but I find Yahoo is getting hard to work with all the time.

You might also take a look at "Bloody Big Battles!", published in 2014, rules for the whole of the nineteenth century but geared particularly towards FPW, and designed to enable you to fight the whole battle on 6'x4' in an evening. The rulebook includes a full 9-scenario campaign of the biggest battles of the war. There are lots more scenarios for the FPW and many other C19 conflicts in the BBB Yahoo group files.
link

For reviews of BBB see here:
link

Chris

BBB are my go-to rules for 19th Century gaming, ideal for FPW, APW, ACW, in fact anyW :-)