"Turn Limits?" Topic

I was perplexed by pfmodel's response in this thread until I got to this bit:

he prerequisite 8, 12 or 16 game-turns

I don't think I've ever played a wargame with a fixed turn limit criterion. Nothing wrong with it, and I can see the function of it. Just outside my personal experience.

I've played a lot of board games that have turn limits built into them. It's one of the two things (improvements) in Risk! 2210. It prevents turtling and the death sprial.

Caveat: I've played what I consider a lot of wargames, so some few might have been turn-limited, and I just can't recall. If there was an objective based criterion like pfmodel describes in his post, and the objective nullified the turn limit, I am likely to forget there was a turn limit.

Do people play rare (<25%), frequent (25%..75%), or almost always (>75%) wargames with turn limits?

My answer is obviously:

Rare – I think it's zero, but can discount that I'm just not remembering.

Some scenarios (delaying actions, relieve beleaguered garrison, ten minutes of dogfighting before bingo fuel, etc) almost mandate turn limits. Also, the fall of darkness put an end to most blackpower-era battles, save perhaps for continued fighting in clearly-defined areas like contested villages. I'd say I play about 50/50 scenarios with turn limits.

I usually do, otherwise in game time a battle could gone for 26 hours straight. Solo and no Need to end any time could do that.

Warmaster typically has an 8 turn limit, but that's a suggestion, not a fixed rule.

About 25%

Monthly Test of Honour games at the FLGS. Works nicely to keep players focused on the objectives.

Rare. As Emulus says, mainly because of nightfall or some other criterion- eg hold a position for n turns, or take one before n turns.

Depends on the rule set – most times we gain it is pretty clear who has and who has not won – we do play some games with a time limit (for example, some of the one page rules) or for a time limit (like, the sun is setting)

I'd say almost always. Lots of large horse & musket battles which will end with nightfall if someone doesn't win sooner. Lots of 20th Century stuff where taking the hill next week wasn't what the C.O. ordered. How many turns would greatly depend on rules and situation.

Doesn't mean the game is always decided that way, of course.

<25%. I've written a couple of scenarios that have a time limit. I use them to keep the players focused, but mostly I employ it to keep them aggressive. The Turn Limit creates heightened tension. It injects an entirely different paradigm into the scenario. It is a most useful tool, but it is not one I employ frequently. Cheers!

Bolt Action rules mandate a 6-turn game with the option to go an additional turn on D6 die roll of 1-3 (or was it 4-6, can't recall).

Jim

One problem if a historical game is does turn time really equate to clock time. Often at conventions seems to be more quitting time

Fair point, 14Bore. One way or another, I've rarely seen a turn limit which would require a second day of gaming. Of course, other ways of deciding the game is over mostly do that too.

Wasn't it Featherstone who insisted that the primary rule is that the game be over before the pub stopped serving?

It is common with Bolt Action and similar games to have artificial turn limitations. I don't care for it.

delaying actions, relieve beleaguered garrison, ten minutes of dogfighting before bingo fuel

We play the battle of short hills fairly often (few times a year). It's not on a turn clock, the game is over when the last Brit gets off the board to the north. The number of Brits and Rebels that survive and the number of turns combine to determine victory contditions.

For the beleaguered garrison, they are usually under some type of assault, so its more about getting enough force on site to make the attackers retreat before you lose the location. Generally attackers gain points picking off defending units when they can work an advantage. But once enough reenforcements are on scene, they risk losing points (or the defending side gaining them fast) by sticking around. It's still a player decision, not a clock.

I suppose Wings of War would work with a turn clock. But only because it doesn't do fuel logistics. Even so, I think I would rather have a fuel logistics system (straight cards = 1 fuel unit, all turns = 2, diamond maneuvers = 3) instead of a straight turn clock. As 14Bore asks,

does turn time really equate to clock time

Like that idea that turns don't equate to constant fuel consumption, I agree that a turn isn't necessarily a fixed time duration. When there are time limits (like sunset), I prefer to use a variable clock to turn relationship.