"Tactics of the Ukrainian war" Topic

An excellent analysis of the failed Ukrainian special forces operation from one of the best (objective), in my opinion, military analysts:

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@Cuprum

I enjoy your posts and your perspective even if I don't agree with your point of view on the politics.

The courage of the Russian soldiers is incredible, they had to know it was a one way trip for all of them or most of them.

The problem is that there are Russians fighting on both sides, although many Ukrainians do not consider themselves Russian. But the differences in mentality and behavior are minimal.

@Dal Gavan

Well observed. The human variable is the cruelest metric: plans look splendid on paper until someone misreads the line, someone else reads the wrong map, and an eager general reads both as permission. Escorting every surveillance sortie sounds neat in a briefing room and suicidal in a rain of misinterpretations — and, as you say, might be precisely the outcome a hawk wants.

As for tribunals and the UN, they're marvelous lamps for the conscience but poor hammers for deterrence. Vetoes and selective compliance render them ceremonial much of the time. Sanctions, too, become theatrical unless someone has the stomach to follow the script — and when corporate and oligarchic interests pull the strings, the scripts are constantly rewritten.

So we agree; the sensible policy is twofold: harden and diversify your defenses and attribution capabilities, and keep your retaliatory menu both credible and compartmentalized — public principle, private options.

And, yes, Dal, If more debates ended with a hot brew instead of a hot temper, the world would be safer and better caffeinated. :)

@Cuprum

Your indignation is almost convincing, though you seem to confuse skepticism with sainthood. "No evidence," you say, as if absence of confession were proof of innocence. The mystery of the drones, the ships, the pipelines — they remain mysterious largely because every investigator who looks too closely finds themselves accused of propaganda. When all sides claim purity, it's usually the truth that ends up in exile.

@Tango — I share your impatience with the mythology of the lone crusader defying the decadent West; it's a story that would sound braver if it weren't told by those who authored the trouble. But I'll say this much for Cuprum: he at least offers a case, however elastic. Most of what passes for discussion these days is more reflex than reasoning.

Can we keep this simple with less posturing and more substance? The best cure for propaganda isn't volume — it's calm evidence, presented clearly and checked twice.

@Cuprum2

An excellent analysis of the failed Ukrainian special forces operation from one of the best (objective), in my opinion, military analysts:

An engaging play-by-play, and to be fair, a reasonably balanced one by the standards of modern war commentary.

However, what it really shows is how the technology of exposure has outpaced the sense required to interpret it.

Every squad with a drone now performs before a worldwide crowd; each raid becomes 'Where Eagles Dare" within minutes. Triumphs are inflated, blunders replayed until they harden into legend. I don't question the courage of the men involved — only the prudence of turning every skirmish into spectacle.

Incavart77, I'm sorry, but there are so many accusations and simply no evidence. That doesn't happen… Why would anyone need to confess if there's irrefutable evidence?
Only lies require no proof…

The spectacle of every skirmish is a familiar reality of modern warfare. The battlefield is incredibly saturated with cameras broadcasting live.

Shotgun World Champion vs. FPV Drones:

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Even in the hothouse conditions of the training ground, this is an extremely difficult goal for a champion.

Ukraine Facing CATASTROPHIC Defeat in Pokrovsk:

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The human variable is the cruelest metric

I think that effect may be exacerbated by other issues, too, such as needing to appease supporters to stay in power, keeping the ability to retain control and, in the PRC's case at least, uncertainty how the population will react now that the gloss has gone off the Chinese economy. People under pressure can do strange things, and I'd say Putin and Xi, and some Western pollies, are under considerable pressure, whether it's pressure to win or pressure to strike a cease-fire/peace deal.

Only lies require no proof…

Give over, Cuprum, you're smarter than that. Any theory requires proof, mate, to confirm or debunk it. The same goes for "news stories" and reports. Some are easy to confirm or debunk, some are impossible. And if pollies/tyrants/oligarchs are involved then you've moved into a multiverse of multiple realities- theirs' against everyone elses'.

No, I don't believe in other people's realities. It's a skill I learned back in the USSR: if you want to know the truth, learn to find the facts yourself amidst a mountain of information garbage. And draw your own conclusions from them. Otherwise, you're just someone else's pawn.
Thanks to the "Great Internet," I can now easily obtain facts from various sources—from all sides of the conflict and from neutral parties.
And it's also incredibly interesting.

The most effective anti-drone protection for tanks in the Russian army is currently considered to be the "hedgehog" type. It is typically made of unraveled steel cables. When a drone attacks this type of protection, it typically becomes disoriented before the charge detonates, and the shaped-charge jet is deflected.

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Operation Purring Thunder

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A little humor amidst so much death…

Armand

Tango – the soul is immortal…

The inscription on the chevron reads: "Landscape designer"

@Cuprum

Absence of proof is not proof of absence. Still, when every claim is met with a counterclaim, the sensible response is method, not hysteria. Document, cross-check, and publish the findings before the verdict. If we insist on certainty, let's at least contend with primary sources rather than volume.

Let's keep the verbs tentative until the facts aren't. As of this afternoon, multiple outlets describe house-to-house fighting and Russian gains, but not a completed fall: Kyiv says its units are still in the city and not fully encircled; Reuters, RFE/RL, and others frame it as "pressing on" rather than "over."

If it's settled, we'll see it corroborated by independent map updates, on-the-ground imagery, and statements from both sides—in that order. Until then, I prefer evidence before eulogies.

Happy to upgrade "has fallen" to "has fallen" the moment three good sources agree.

@cuprum2

The "hedgehog" approach you mention is a sensible field expedient: wire, nets or cable skirts disrupt or tangle small rotorcraft and can defeat shaped-charge fuzing by spoiling standoff geometry. It's cheap and pragmatic, but not magical — it adds weight and snag hazards, complicates maintenance, and does little against high-speed jet drones or massed strikes unless paired with EW or active protection. Like all countermeasures, it's a useful layer, not a cure-all.They'll blunt a few drones, yes, but they also advertise the tank's silhouette from orbit.

@Dal Gavan

I think that effect may be exacerbated by other issues, too, such as needing to appease supporters to stay in power, keeping the ability to retain control and, in the PRC's case at least, uncertainty how the population will react now that the gloss has gone off the Chinese economy. People under pressure can do strange things, and I'd say Putin and Xi, and some Western pollies, are under considerable pressure, whether it's pressure to win or pressure to strike a cease-fire/peace deal.

Quite so, Dal — every statesman eventually learns that control is the most elaborate illusion of all. Pressure doesn't reveal character so much as exhaust it, and the line between resolve and panic narrows the longer one governs. Even emperors end up glancing at the polls — or their courtiers

What???….do you don't comment about mine "Operation Purring Thunder"…? (smile)

Armand

LOL Armand

Operation Purring Thunder is inspired lunacy in 28 millimetres. The composition's pure symbolism: civilization's most domesticated predator taking a swipe at mechanized menace. The modeller has managed, with a handful of resin and paint, to say more about modern war than half the analysts on YouTube. Bravo.

This is where the fur will really fly.

Thanks my friend…

And now…

GUNS AND AMMO: THE UKRAINE WAR AND NATO'S AMMUNITION INTEROPERABILITY PROBLEM

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Armand

The Ukrainians have fooled the Russians into capturing Pokrovsk. I is an unimportant place that the Russians wasted resources taking. Now Ukraine can counter attack any where.

Good point … The Ukrainian Forces have bested the Russians in most engagements. Just looking at the map. From the first day of the war to now. Very few gains by the Russian, and they suffered huge losses …

Now they have Angelina Jolie's driver now. He will be specially trained in driving in emergency situations. They could put him in one of the new British Ajax tanks, this will un-nerve the Russian troops on the front line and make them run away. If the Ukrainians forcibly conscripted all the men in Ukraine they would have a huge army to match the Russian one and Putin would never win.

Russian Teenagers Prepare for War

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Russian Barbarism in Ukraine

"…Meanwhile Russian bad behavior continues. For example, earlier this year soldiers of the Russian 61st Naval Infantry Brigade committed atrocities by attacking civilians with drones to terrorize people in southern Ukraine. The victims were often going about their daily routine but, if they were out in the open, they were targets for these frequent drone attacks. The attacks also included ambulances, which were supposed to have some immunity from attack. The Russians ignored that and killed ambulance drivers, medics, and passengers. Before this terrorism ended over 200 civilians were killed and hundreds more wounded…"

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Russian Doubts and Fears

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Ukrainian Operation Spider Web Surprises

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Emergent Approaches to Combined Arms Manoeuvre in Ukraine

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Armand

AI To Win the Next War

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Armand

Now the Ukrainians are advancing backwards towards the Dnipro river is it time to implement the brave Lindsey Graham's plan and fight to the last Ukrainian conscript every one 18yrs+
in to the Ukraine army? (not air force)
Does any one know of any gaming rules that recreate boys trying to escape been dragged of the streets and stuffed into busses going to the front. I heard about some called Busification but only seen them on line? Thanks.

Weird that your first posts on here are similar to our friend Cuprum 2…

Do you wargame something?

Armand

France Deployed Entire Armored Brigade To BULLY Russia

France wanted to deploy the entire 7th Armored Brigade to Romania as part of Dacian Spring 2025 military exercise to deter Russia. However, due to logistics problems, the operation was canceled. This failure has severe implications for NATO's projection of force capabilities in Eastern Europe.

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As we all know the Russian army in no good. They can not carry out combined arms operations, the infantry are driven forwards by commissars armed with bigger spades than the men and there are no working washing machines left in the battalion rest areas. They have been deceived into capturing more territory in the Pokrovsk area. However is it now time for us in the west to sell all our possessions and give the proceeds to the war effort, then each commander could equip themselves with a golden toilet like the elites in kiev?

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This would raise the morale of the men on the front who would be able to aspire to these lofty hights after the war is over.

Underwear elastic exposes Russian propaganda

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FROM RELIC TO RELEVANCE: WHY OBSOLETE WEAPONS STILL WIN MODERN WARS

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Armand

Massive Surrender of Ukrainian Soldiers in Pokrovsk Cauldron:

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I'd like another source to agree with that link about Ukrainian Forces surrendering …

And thru out history forces have surrendered units but did not lose the war. E.g. Starting with G. Washington in the French & Indian War …

Several dozen people found themselves without food, water, or ammunition. In my opinion, calling this a mass surrender is a gross exaggeration of the events. It's nothing compared to the capitulation in Mariupol, when over two thousand Ukrainian soldiers surrendered simultaneously, most of them from elite marine units and the SS Azov Regiment.

So… if it's a gross exaggeration… why do you show it here?…

The battle continue in Pokrovsk and the casualties of the Russians are insane… Column after column of vehicles, armored cars, tanks, motorcycles, etc. were decimated day by day by drones…

With a ratio of 8-1, the Ukrainians are putting up a heroic defense… there have been troops surrendering on both sides… soon there will be an exchange of prisoners (Russians) and almost corpses (Ukrainians) exceeding a thousand men…

Mariupol lates two months and was in 2022…

Armand

Tango +1

Tango, to avoid writing nonsense, look at the prisoner and body exchange figures throughout the war – the information is readily available.

As for the videos, it's easy to show Ukrainian successes and hide Russian ones. And some people might get a distorted view of reality. Which, however, won't change it in any way.
If you enjoy videos like this, check out this channel. Russian videos straight from the battlefield, with new collections added regularly:

YouTube link

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The only one who wrote nonsense is you… first you show a "Massive Surrender of Ukranians"… and next day you said "it's a gross exaggeration"… no mention the times you said "in a couple of month the war was over" or "at the end of the year the war was over"…

About any Russian origin you show… I don't loose time to see it… to the Russians I don't buy even the "Good morning"…

Armand

How NATO Can Build Europe's Drone Wall

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War Unfolding in Slow Motion: Russia vs. NATO

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Armand

Tango, I don't care what you believe in or don't))) It doesn't change reality…

Yes, I gave a timeframe based on the assumption that Western politicians would think rationally. But it seems that most Western politicians have lost that ability.
So much the worse for them.

New Russian Offensive STEAMROLLING Ukraine in Zaporizhia:

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The Russians are advancing simultaneously on two fronts… Meanwhile, a gigantic corruption scandal has erupted in Ukraine. Zelensky and his gang stole hundreds of millions in Western aid. They stole from their sponsors, their army, and their people. I wonder how this will affect the course of the war)))

The Economist / A huge corruption scandal threatens Ukraine's government

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Daily Mail / The golden toilet scandal that's getting close to Zelensky: Friend of Ukraine's president is accused of €86.00 EURmillion wartime funds corruption scheme

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It must be admitted that the Russian gene for corruption is difficult to eliminate…

Armand

Putin's Failed Nuclear Threats

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Armand

The Russian gene? Ha-ha-ha… The entire West is riddled with corruption that neither Russians nor Ukrainians could even dream of.

Trump needs to get real(ist)

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Trump's '28-point plan' for Ukraine War provokes political earthquake

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Armand

As I have probably mentioned, some of the points of this peace plan which I saw on the news. Really plays right into Putin's hands … E.g.:

The Ukrainian military reduced by half.

Ukraine can't have certain weapons systems. Long range missiles ?

Putin gets to keep all the terrain they occupy in Ukraine. Plus a few other locations that border that occupied terrain.

No foreign troops[NATO?] in Ukraine. Includes UN ?

IF these points are accepted this will only set up the board for a Russian invasion sometime in the future. After Russia rebuilds it military after suffering huge losses fighting in Ukraine.

I fear peace in Ukraine as in Gaza will in both places only be fleeting … short termed if at all …

"IF these points are accepted this will only set up the board for a Russian invasion sometime in the future"

So by your logic Russia should stop advancing now, withdraw and plan another invasion in a couple of years time?

+1 Legion

It has the feel of a surrender document, or a Neville Chamberlain appeasement, IMO. Ukrainians are the clear victims and have paid a huge price in lives and destruction to defend their country. They have outfought the Russians with fewer resources and held on. All for this?

There is some controversy about how much input on the plan came from Putin.

+ 1 legion 4

security guarantee
couple of nukes

+ Legion 4…

It was not a "feel" surrender document… it was a surrender as if you lost the war…

It's easy to have an opinion when it's not your country who is invaded, bled dry, raped, and destroyed by those barbarians of all time… The USA against the British, England against Germany, and thousands of other examples had to surrender because so much blood was being shed… Ukraine needs help with weapons and real tariff measures against Russia… it seems easy to raise tariffs on your former allies but not on the Russian murderers… come on!

Armand

Oh, Tango. This is the first time I agree with your opinion – the war must end with the unconditional surrender of one of the parties! ;-)