| Cuprum2 | 24 Oct 2025 7:26 p.m. PST |
I came across an interesting video of a Russian attack aimed at capturing another forest belt. The video is from the Ukrainian side (with a corresponding selection of frames).
First, a column of eleven Russian motorcyclists attacks. They are spotted by spotter drones and immediately come under attack from a Baba Yaga drone bomber (this drone is usually armed with several 120mm mortar shells). The bombing was not very effective. But then, the motorcyclists' area was hit by massive artillery fire, and the column was scattered. The first attack was thwarted.
The second act is an attack by a Tsar-Mangal tank and three infantry fighting vehicles. The tank goes first, it is equipped with an anti-mine trawl. Despite intense drone fire, the group, having lost two infantry fighting vehicles to damage along the way, reaches the attack objective, landing troops in the designated forest belt. The tank provides fire support for the infantry as they consolidate their position. Ultimately, the mission is accomplished, but all the vehicles are either damaged or destroyed. It's hard to say how many casualties were suffered. At least ten for sure.
The tank's resistance to drone strikes is impressive it took 37 RPG hits to stop this monster. And that's just what was captured in the video… link |
 Editor in Chief Bill   | 24 Oct 2025 7:36 p.m. PST |
The Ukrainians just need a drone that will place an AT mine directly in front of Russian vehicles. That would bypass all the wires, baskets and rubber sheets… |
 John the OFM  | 24 Oct 2025 7:42 p.m. PST |
I've said from the beginning of Putin's War that all wargaming rules would have to be re-written to account for circumstances that nobody could imagine. |
| Cuprum2 | 24 Oct 2025 7:52 p.m. PST |
This tank has a mine sweeper. Furthermore, mine laying and mine clearing have long been carried out using drones. Russian drone sappers training in installing and clearing anti-personnel mines:
link Ukrainian video destruction of a "mine barrier" on a road:
link |
| OSCS74 | 24 Oct 2025 8:16 p.m. PST |
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| Cuprum2 | 24 Oct 2025 9:00 p.m. PST |
Another interesting and little-known fact about this war: Observer and spotter drones pose a major problem for all sides. They can remain in the air for hours, often at high altitude, observing the battlefield and alerting them to any enemy activity. Their flight range also allows them to penetrate far behind the front lines. They are relatively inexpensive and highly effective in this war, their use has virtually eliminated the "fog of war" factor; even at night, they can detect the enemy using various devices. Destroying such cheap drones with conventional air defense missiles is expensive, and electronic warfare is ineffective at high altitudes. Both sides are now actively using small aircraft (sports, agricultural, and other civilian aircraft) to counter these drone observers. Watch some interesting footage of this side of the war… Aerial ramming, attacks by Ukrainian drones on Russian airfields by small aircraft, attacks by a Russian interceptor drone equipped with a small explosive charge to destroy observer drones… link |
| Cuprum2 | 25 Oct 2025 1:12 a.m. PST |
Russian anti-drone ammunition for the AK-74 (5.45mm). A last-resort weapon for infantrymen against FVP drones. Shooting at targets at 1, 2, 3, 25, and 50 meters… YouTube link |
| smithsco | 25 Oct 2025 7:28 p.m. PST |
I saw recently that the US military is so concerned about the observer drones and FPV drones you've described that they are looking issuing shotguns to every squad and have a shotgun round that is chicken wire jammed into the shell to make metal nets. Affordable counter measure for lower altitudes. |
 Legion 4 | 25 Oct 2025 7:50 p.m. PST |
smithco. +1
Also … What I said on another thread here related to this subject.
What made e.g. MGs so effective was tactics did not evolve as quickly as the tech did … The MG didn't make Infantry ineffective … The musket was replaced by the higher tech of e.g. metal cartridges/breech loading/lever action and finally bolt-action rifles. Bolt Action was replaced semi-auto magazine fed rifles … Semi-auto selected fire rifles superseded by the Assault Rifle concept. What next … not sure … but I pretty sure it will be something even better. The same happened with muzzle loading FA replaced by breech loading. Again, Tank vs. AT Aircraft vs. AA So, I'm pretty sure the anti-drone tech is being invented and evolving as I type this. But no matter what … the only way to fight modern warfare is combined arms mobile maneuver warfare. IF tactics/techniques/training DO NOT evolve along with the ever-advancing tech. We will see what happened to the Russian forces in Ukraine. Or even what we generally saw in a number of the Arab-Israeli Wars. E.g. '56, '67, '73 etc. Plus, the IDF's use of combined arms in Gaza i.e. fighting MOUT with insurgents … Short answer anti-drone tech will eventually be fairly commonplace on the battlefield as are, e.g. AT, AAA, etc. tech is currently. Again, tactics must evolve along with the tech. |
| Incavart77 | 25 Oct 2025 8:20 p.m. PST |
One might almost say the modern battlefield has become a video game designed by Kafka every man a pixel, every tree line a data point. When eleven motorcyclists charge a forest and are met not by men but by flying lawnmowers armed with mortar shells, one wonders if Clausewitz would throw up his hands or reach for a drone controller himself. War used to conceal its madness behind smoke and distance. Now the fog of war has been replaced by the glare of livestreams. I suppose progress marches on though, in this case, mostly by quadcopter. |
| Tango01 | 25 Oct 2025 9:33 p.m. PST |
I've seen another interesting video about Russian drones… attacking agricultural machinery in the middle of the harvesting process, operated by civilians… also buses and cars with civilians far from the front line… not to mention the "wrong" targets in children's schools and hospitals… Armand |
| Legion 4 | 26 Oct 2025 6:55 p.m. PST |
I suppose progress marches on though, in this case, mostly by quadcopter. Based on history … there will be more to come … and probably some will be even deadlier. Humans are very good at coming up with ways to kill each other. |
| Cuprum2 | 26 Oct 2025 8:18 p.m. PST |
Does it look like this, Tango? Oh, but it's the Ukrainians who are hitting civilians… link link link |
| Jcfrog | 27 Oct 2025 5:28 a.m. PST |
Humbling, terrible, astonishing…
I normally refrain from watching these videos; suffering, and dying people are not "a show", fun, or a video game.
This assault with the overprotected tank is something poignant. They start with 4 armoured vehicles and 11 Kradshόtzen (we are back in 42).
They lost most of the bikers, or so it seems; one apc, still carry on.
Then only one reaches the target (?) hit, how many survive?
This tank carries on with 37+ hits and on, till out of action. The incredible courage of these people.
Then the crew bails out and are viciously hunted to death while running away. Like shooting survivors on a sunken ship. A drone for each man!
When will this senseless slaughter stop?
I want these eurocrats and self-appointed "elites" go and die in a tracked coffin, in the cold wet early morning, burning to death, instead of all these young men from both sides who are their victims. |
| Cuprum2 | 27 Oct 2025 5:55 a.m. PST |
I'm sorry if these images upset you. But these are the realities of war. If politicians and diplomats don't want to speak up and listen to other people's opinions, guns will do the talking and people will die.
I think the battlefield will look like this in the foreseeable future (Russian robotic forces training in Belarus):
link Here's footage of a real robot being used as part of an assault team: link |
| Legion 4 | 27 Oct 2025 6:32 a.m. PST |
I want these eurocrats and self-appointed "elites" go and die in a tracked coffin, in the cold wet early morning, burning to death, instead of all these young men from both sides who are their victims. Agreed … Albeit Ukraine has the right of self-defense. That is in accordance with the UN. Russia is clearly the aggressor. The lie repeatedly told by Putin that NATO wanted to destroy, etc. Russia couldn't be more of a fantasy than LoTRs. While a "Cold War Warrior" '79-'90[as some call us]. The OPLAN for NATO was if the USSR/WP attacked into Western Europe. The mission was to reestablish the IGB and push the USSR out of any NATO territory they tried to occupy. There would be NO drive on Moscow, etc. No need to. There is no reason. There is nothing in the USSR/WP that NATO could want/need. That couldn't not be obtained economically, if need be, etc. NATO only wanted to defend its territory. Putin is trying to do what he may have observed from the Chicoms. Playing the long game. He is betting on if the war lasts too long. The US/NATO will stop supporting Ukraine. It is clear to anyone, that will not happen. Putin only occupies about 20% of Ukraine. Which took them over 2 years to obtain. The Russians are making gains by yards, e.g. WWI all over again. With very heavy losses. Those losses are on mostly on the Russian and their ally's sides. But these are the realities of war. If politicians and diplomats don't want to speak up and listen to other people's opinions, guns will do the talking and people will die. Putin knows exactly what he is doing. He has taken such huge losses with very little to show for it. He has to get something that he could call a "win". Even he gets it or should. Holding the little ground the Russians have taken in over two years. With the massive losses way outweighs those few gains. If the Russians want to show some real bravery, etc. They should have another Revolution. And get rid of Putin and his associates. Ending the war and saving many, many lives. Mostly their own. He should not doubt the POTUS's warnings. Very strict sanctions, etc. and the possibility of the US giving Ukraine TLAMs. Is something Putin and his supporters should not doubt … Russia can again become a productive member of European society. Especially economically … In the meantime, the bodies mostly their bodies continue to pile up. |
| Jcfrog | 27 Oct 2025 9:48 a.m. PST |
Don't be sorry, Yevgeny. When we were at that show in Akulova, little did we know this kind of things would happen! |
| Tango01 | 27 Oct 2025 1:13 p.m. PST |
Legion + 1
Human lives have never mattered to the Russians… it's clear from their history… sacrifice on the front or in one's own country is as natural as going to the bathroom… as long as the "volunteers" (or actually their families) continue to earn such astronomical sums of money nothing else matters… even those who try to surrender are killed by the Russian Army itself… there are interesting videos about drones killing Russian soldiers with their hands up (along with their possible captor).
The nickname "Orcs" or "Zombies" is very well placed…
Armand
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| Cuprum2 | 27 Oct 2025 6:13 p.m. PST |
Watch, Tango, as the Ukrainians kill their own soldiers who try to surrender: link link link
And Tango, I ask you not to spread your stupid politics and propaganda in my threads. This thread is about tactics and weapons. Create your own thread for propaganda and post your nonsense there.
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| Tango01 | 27 Oct 2025 9:17 p.m. PST |
Nobody is owner of a thread… only Bill is…I don't recommend disqualifying anyone in that way, it could be interpreted as a personal attack and that is punishable by suspension… if you are willing to defend a bloody tyranny as vehemently as you do, you must be willing to receive criticism.
Take care.
Armand
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| Cuprum2 | 28 Oct 2025 1:56 a.m. PST |
Maybe it would be better to ask the forum visitors if they want to hear your criticism IN THIS TOPIC? |
| kiltboy | 28 Oct 2025 4:29 a.m. PST |
I'd sooner listen to Tango and Legion than the nonsense coming from inside Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine and is solely responsible for the bloodshed happening there, they should withdraw to the 1991 borders. |
| Cuprum2 | 28 Oct 2025 5:09 a.m. PST |
Okay… Then I'm done posting tactics… You can enjoy the conversation with Tango))) |
| Legion 4 | 28 Oct 2025 11:42 a.m. PST |
I'd sooner listen to Tango and Legion Why wouldn't you ? |
| Stoppage | 28 Oct 2025 1:13 p.m. PST |
Well, I hope we all feel entirely happy, we've satisfied our own moral credentials and added a chilling effect to information sharing and discovery on this platform. Excuse me while I go out and: - Tie a yellow ribbon around the old oak tree
- Hoist National/State/County flag All to stop my ignorant, self-satisfied, and bullying neighbours from having an excuse – no matter how small – to putting a brick through my window. Cheers! |
| Tango01 | 28 Oct 2025 1:28 p.m. PST |
But my little Russian friend… you shouldn't act like a capricious child who gets angry and slams the door if he's not given what he wants… I understand that you may be used to participating in Russian forums where everyone agrees and congratulates each other… but this is a forum in a free country where, if there's no lack of personal respect, you can debate, give opinions and include data without any prejudice… I recommend that you take it less personally… Armand |
| Cuprum2 | 28 Oct 2025 2:44 p.m. PST |
I just prefer to discuss topics that interest me, and not what you prefer to discuss, Tango… Perhaps this idea is too complicated for you, but I doubt I can help you in this case. |
| Tango01 | 28 Oct 2025 3:49 p.m. PST |
Oh!… don't worry…you have help me a lot… Armand |
 Dal Gavan | 28 Oct 2025 6:06 p.m. PST |
Stoppage +1. You nailed it, mate. Cuprum, you and I disagree more often than not. But that doesn't mean I want you to be stopped from posting. Reading an opposing viewpoint can be educational, if people take the opportunity to think about what's written instead of rejecting it out of hand. All those who think the Ukraine is a black and white situation, and all the propaganda and atrocities come only from Russia, may also be interested in some miniatures I have for sale. 35mm early Renaissance (compatible with most 28's)- solid grey platinum, sculpted and painted by Michelangelo. Not based. Only 3M Euro ONO (bank transfer only, cards not accepted). |
| Cuprum2 | 28 Oct 2025 7:02 p.m. PST |
Dal Gavan, don't worry, I'm not leaving the forum or stopping political discussions in the relevant threads. I'm stopping all non-political discussions on current topics, as Tango's political views expressed in threads of any kind are more interesting to forum visitors. |
| Legion 4 | 28 Oct 2025 8:11 p.m. PST |
All those who think the Ukraine is a black and white situation, Generally many situations in war are not … Mostly varying shades of grey … we've satisfied our own moral credentials and added a chilling effect to information sharing and discovery on this platform Never my intention in any case … |
| Incavart77 | 29 Oct 2025 11:29 a.m. PST |
Ironic that in a forum dedicated to the simulation of combat, the mere discussion of war's realities should produce such spasms of moral panic and wounded vanity. The Russians, Ukrainians, and forumites alike all seem to be fighting their own wars some with drones, others with adjectives. When the passions of politics intrude upon the toy soldier's terrain, the lead begins to melt. Civilization depends, in part, on our capacity to quarrel intelligently. |
| Tango01 | 29 Oct 2025 1:21 p.m. PST |
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| Dal Gavan | 29 Oct 2025 1:29 p.m. PST |
The Russians, Ukrainians, and forumites alike all seem to be fighting their own wars some with drones, others with adjectives. People have been conditioned to "Pick a Team", whether it's politics, sports, religion, nation/state or war, and then support that team- and despise/belittle/berate their team's opposition. That's why there's so many who see in B&W these days, I believe. To them their chosen team is always right and its opposition, if any, is just wrong/deceitful/evil. That works well if you're a political party, sports team marketeer or out to convert the heathens. But it does nothing to stop people turning discussions into the same old arguments. |
| Legion 4 | 29 Oct 2025 1:57 p.m. PST |
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| Cuprum2 | 29 Oct 2025 4:17 p.m. PST |
Every action has its place and time. |
| Incavart77 | 29 Oct 2025 5:29 p.m. PST |
@ Dal Gavan People have been conditioned to "Pick a Team", whether it's politics, sports, religion, nation/state or war, and then support that team- and despise/belittle/berate their team's opposition. That's why there's so many who see in B&W these days, I believe. To them their chosen team is always right and its opposition, if any, is just wrong/deceitful/evil.That works well if you're a political party, sports team marketeer or out to convert the heathens. But it does nothing to stop people turning discussions into the same old arguments. Quite so. Modern debate has become a contact sport played without helmets lots of cheering, very little thinking. @Cuprum2 Every action has its place and time. Undoubtedly though on the Internet, both are usually misplaced. |
| Legion 4 | 31 Oct 2025 9:40 a.m. PST |
For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction … |
| Tango01 | 31 Oct 2025 10:35 p.m. PST |
The West Needs To Draw the Line on Russian, Chinese Grey-Zone Provocations link Armand |
| Dal Gavan | 01 Nov 2025 2:41 a.m. PST |
Modern debate has become a contact sport played without helmets lots of cheering, very little thinking. A very apt analogy, Incavart. Well put, though playing contact sports with a helmet is something I haven't done. They were rarely used in Rugby (Union or League)- which could help explain my fading memory and unsteady hands. The West Needs To Draw the Line on Russian, Chinese Grey-Zone Provocations What can be done, mate? It's a balance between retaliation and escalation. For example- a PLA-AF "flared" an RAAF P-8 over the South China Sea again, just last week. What would happen if the next P-8 to over-fly the South China Sea had a fighter escort? Provocation is not new, and has been favourite tool of the USSR and PLA (among others) since before WWII, and was nearly a daily occurrence in the 60's until the Wall came down. Another favourite is shooting down civvie airliners which supposedly crossed into their airspace (eg Kaleva 1940, Korean Air Lines Flight 007 1983, Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 2014, etc). Do we bomb the Soviet SAM sites in Ukraine? Send fighter escorts with civvie flights near conflict zones? Pile on more sanctions? Off a national leader or two? |
| Tango01 | 01 Nov 2025 4:29 p.m. PST |
At Least 100 Russian Officers Have Executed Their Own Comrades in Ukraine Vyorstka link Russia's Central Bank Chief Forecasts Rate Cuts Through 2026 link Kenyans Being Tricked Into Fighting for Russia Foreign Ministry
link
Armand
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| Cuprum2 | 01 Nov 2025 5:54 p.m. PST |
Russia's New Tactic Freezes Ukraine's Power Grid! link The Russians make extensive use of glide bombs. By installing small jet engines and a glide kit, these inexpensive bombs (essentially World War II-era) become precision-guided weapons with a range of up to 200 km. High-explosive bombs weighing 500 and 1,000 kg are primarily used, but 3,000 kg bombs are also common. A strike from the latter can completely destroy a standard fortified area… link The battle for Pokrovsk is drawing to a close. Another catastrophe for the Ukrainian army is approaching… link |
| Tango01 | 01 Nov 2025 9:32 p.m. PST |
Ukrainian Attack On Russian Dam Impeding Moscow's Logistics In The North
link
Armand |
| Cuprum2 | 01 Nov 2025 10:23 p.m. PST |
Well, there are plenty of untouched dams in Ukraine. So far, untouched… The destruction of a Ukrainian special forces unit, GUR, who attempted to unblock the road to Pokrovsk a couple of days ago… The elite special operations forces were thrown into battle and lost like regular frontline troops. link |
