"Wurttemburg Lancers - any idea what they looked like?" Topic

Trying to find info on t'web, nowt coming up for me :(

And while I'm at it, info on the uniforms of the Russian Dragoons who converted into lancers seems confusing. I'm sure it was easier to find info online a few years back…

Didn't remember there being any Wurttemburg lancers in period, freecloud. If you find them, please let us know.

"I'm sure it was easier to find info online a few years back…" It was, but Magweb is dead, and we have to struggle on.

I have a pretty complete 28mm Wurttemburg army and I've never seen anything about a Lancer unit.

They didn't have any that I am aware of.

OP, do you mean Westphalia instead?

How many, if any, of you are responding from Historicon?

In 1815 one squadron of the Garderegiment was broken out to form a Lieb-Uhlanen-Corps. I have no info on its size.

The connection here is tenuous, but:

link

Knotel, Knotel & Sieg's Uniforms of the World (Army & Armour Press 1980) (my go to source for questions about minor armies) says at page 248 "The Feldjager Corps was raised in 1759 … In 1815 the corps was dressed as lancers and adopted the title Liebulanenkorps. The uniform was green and red with gold lace. In 1817 it was renamed the Feldjager Corps."

They had Chevaulegers, but not Chevaulegers-lanciers

So whether or not there were Napoleonic Wurttemburg lancers would depend on the exact date of the creation and the wargamer's cut off date for the Napoleonic Wars. I'll be interested in what turns up, but my guess would be post-Waterloo. It's the only reason I can think of that the late Bob Hagerty wouldn't have fielded them.

Thanks all

FYI, my reference is Ray Johnson's "Napoleonic Armies", it lists a Wurttemburg Uhlan unit (newly created) in the Observation Corps in 1815. I doubt if they saw serious (or any) action but even on very tenuous evidence my Wurttemburgers would love a lancer unit ;)

The Feldjager Korps being given lances would fit, thanks. In that link picture they reference the Konig regiment which I also saw elsewhere, but in the picture they look the same as pictures I have of the Dragoon regiment.

I wonder if a specialised lancer unit wouldn't have Czapska or traditional Wurttemburg cavalry helmet, not a shako (almost Kiwer)? Or maybe (Russian style) the Dragoon unit was given lances.

Also, any ideas on what Russian lance armed dragoons looked like would be useful.

"Das Koniglich Wurttembergische Heer 1806-1871" by Herbert Hahn – After the Leibjager-Garde‘s dissolution in 1815, a Leib-Uhlanen Corps of 41 men was formed from the men of the former unit, from which the Feld-Jδger Squadron emerged in 1816.

The book shows the Feld-Jager wearing a colpack – this is shown in the section on uniforms 1817 – 1864. Further details of Uhlans (including the normal cavalry regiments post 1817) are in the extract at link

Russian Dragoons converted to Uhlan regiments (From mark conrad's translation):

17 December 1812— The Lancer regiments renamed from Dragoons are prescribed blue jackets, pants, girdles, and saddlecloths, with the following distinctions:

For the Yamburg — raspberry collar, lapels, cuffs, piping, wide stripes on the pants, stripes on the girdle, and trim on the saddlecloth; yellow buttons, epaulettes, and headdress cords; white shapka headdress, with red braid and pompon; white top half to the pennon, with a narrow raspberry stripe, and a raspberry lower half, with a narrow white stripe (Illus. 1548).

For the Orenburg — raspberry collar, lapels, cuffs, piping, wide stripes on the pants, stripes on the girdle, and trim on the saddlecloth; yellow buttons, epaulettes, and headdress cords; raspberry shapka headdress, with yellow braid and pompon; blue top half to the pennon, with a narrow raspberry stripe, and a raspberry lower half, with a narrow blue stripe (Illus. 1548).

For the Zhitomir — red collar, lapels, cuffs, piping, wide stripes on the pants, stripes on the girdle, and trim on the saddlecloth; white buttons, epaulettes, and headdress cords; blue shapka headdress, with white braid and pompon; yellow top half to the pennon, with a narrow blue stripe, and a blue lower half, with a narrow yellow stripe (Illus. 1549).

For the Siberia — red collar, lapels, cuffs, piping, wide stripes on the pants, stripes on the girdle, and trim on the saddlecloth; white buttons, epaulettes, and headdress cords; white shapka headdress, with red braid and pompon; yellow top half to the pennon, with a narrow white stripe, and a white lower half, with a narrow yellow stripe (Illus. 1550).

For the Vladimir — blue collar; red lapels, cuffs, piping, wide stripes on the pants, stripes on the girdle, and trim on the saddlecloth; yellow buttons, epaulettes, and headdress cords; blue shapka headdress, with yellow braid and pompon; yellow top half to the pennon towards the shaft, but blue towards the end, with a narrow blue stripe, and a lower half with the colours reversed and with a yellow stripe (Illus. 1551).

For the Taganrog — blue collar; red lapels, cuffs, piping, wide stripes on the pants, stripes on the girdle, and trim on the saddlecloth; yellow buttons, epaulettes, and headdress cords; white shapka headdress, with red braid and pompon; yellow top half to the pennon towards the shaft, but red towards the end, with a narrow red stripe, and a lower half with the colours reversed and with a yellow stripe (Illus. 1552).

For the Serpukhov — blue collar; red lapels, cuffs, piping, wide stripes on the pants, stripes on the girdle, and trim on the saddlecloth; yellow buttons, epaulettes, and headdress cords; red shapka headdress, with yellow braid and pompon; blue top half to the pennon towards the shaft, but red towards the end, with a narrow red stripe, and a lower half with the colours reversed and with a blue stripe (Illus. 1553) (229).

In all these regiments, privates have white hair plumes, and monograms and crowns on the saddlecloth in the same colour as its trim. For non-commissioned officers, the collar and cuffs on the jacket have galloon of the same colour as the buttons; the top of the plume is black with orange. For trumpeters, sewn-on lace is white and plumes are red. Officers' uniform distinctions, as well as all the accoutrements and weapons of the above seven regiments, are the same as in the four old regiments: Polish, Tatar, Lithuania, and Volhynia.

It is suggested that the lance pennons should be as below:

According to Viskovatov lance pennons were:
For HIS HIGHNESS THE TSAREVICH'S Lancers — red pennons in the 1st Battalion; in the 2nd — red upper half to the pennon, with a narrow white stripe, and a white lower half, with a narrow red stripe (Illus. 1541).

For the Polish Lancers — blue pennons in the 1st Battalion; in the 2nd — blue upper half to the pennon, with a narrow raspberry stripe, and a raspberry lower half, with a narrow blue stripe (Illus. 1542).

For the Tatar Lancers — raspberry pennons in the 1st Battalion; in the 2nd — raspberry upper half to the pennon, with a narrow white stripe, and a white lower half, with a narrow raspberry stripe (Illus. 1543).

For the Lithuania Lancers — white pennons in the 1st Battalion; in the 2nd — white upper half to the pennon, with a narrow blue stripe, and a blue lower half, with a narrow white stripe (Illus. 1544).

For the Volhynia Lancers — in the 1st Battalion — yellow top half to the pennon, with a narrow white stripe, and a white lower half, with a narrow yellow stripe; in the 2nd — yellow upper half to the pennon, with a narrow raspberry stripe, and a raspberry lower half, with a narrow yellow stripe (Illus. 1545).

Chuguev Lancer Regiment, renamed from a Cossack regiment, – pennons: red in the 1st Battalion, and in the 2nd — red upper half with a narrow blue stripe, and blue lower half with a narrow red stripe (Illus. 1547)

Thanks very much, really interesting. That was also an inteeesting article on the Wurttemburg light troops.

Re the Wurttemburg Dragoons – would one count them as heavy cavalry?

Also in that vein, is there a consensus at all on Chevauxlegere vs Chasseurs/Jager zu Pferd, especially in the Germanic armies – is it just a title, or is one best counted as heavier than the other at all?

Chevauxlegere and Chasseurs and Jager zu Pferd were light cavalry. Wurttemburg Dragoons were originally raised as Leichte (i.e. Light) Dragoner so again treat as light.