"DBMM and the Babylonian infantry?" Topic

Hello everyone,

In list No. 44 of DBMM entitled "Neo-Babylonian.746BC-482 BC, before the fall of Nineveh in 612 BC the regular infantry for the close combat of the Babylonian army is only represented by that of the guard?

All the infantry of the Babylonian army, that of the Chaldeans and Arameans only made up of Archers?

To be fair you probably won't get much feedback about DBMM on this site.

If you want detailed discussion, there is a very active DBMM group on DBMMlist on groups.io

In fact some of the list authors are on that site.

Cheers,
JohnG

The writer of most of the lists of that period and region is a professional academic of that period and region, so presumably that is what the sources show. Armies of the Near East says that the tactics of this period relied a lot on defending irrigation ditches and canals.
For much of the early period of this list, Babylon was under nominal Assyrian rule. The list covers the frequent revolts, the last of which was successful. The army would have been less structured than was possible after the Assyrian defeat.

The neighbouring Elamites, who were often allied to the Babylonians at this time, also used massed archery.

@platypus01au

For years I only go to TMP, for me there is only this forum of value…

@Swampster,

I also read that the Babylonian archers were equipped for melee, but with DBMM they are not likely to be very effective…

I also saw that they used teams of two horses rather than four for their chariots…

It's like for the Kushites, there are no books on their armies?

Nigel Tallis has talked of doing an update of the info in the old WRG book though it would be quite a task. Even then, a lot of cultures would get little coverage but probably an improvement on what is currently available.

The art of war in ancient Assyria by Roland Sennawald is a book dedicated to the Assyrians. The author has promised another volume would be forthcoming dedicated to the enemies of the Assyrians….which would include the Babylonians. I have been under the impression it would take place sometime this year if the work is carried through.

@Swampster
Great if Nigel Tallis ever updates the information in his old WRG book.

@Oregon01
Yes, let's hope that Roland Sennawald will also write a book dedicated to the enemies of the Assyrians… which would include the Babylonians and the Kushites.

TMP link

For years I only go to TMP, for me there is only this forum of value…

TMP is great but I would never use if as a substitute for sites dedicated to a specific rules set and the supporting lists for it. I play Sword and Spear and would use the Facebook site dedicated to it for specific queries.

I only use one brand of figurines (Minifig 25mm) and only go to one forum (TMP)and that is more than enough for me, as for social networks I am not on any and never will be.

Minfigs only have 2 figures labelled as "Babylonian" in their inventory.

One of these is code EA95 Babylonian Archer, and the other is EA105, Babylonian Officer.

Given this extensive selection, and your self-imposed restrictions on the only manufacturer you are prepared to consider, I would have thought that an army list for Babylonians which only includes infantry archers would be absolutely ideal, especially if you are happy to include the occasional officer to tell them who to shoot at.

@madaxeman

Indeed, but if you read Armies and Enemies of Ancient Egypt and Assyria: 3200 BC to 612 BC, Wargames Research Group, 1974 by Alan Buttery and Armies of the Ancient Near East 3000 BC to 539 BC, Wargames Research Group, 1984 by Nigel Stillman and Nigel Tallis, you will notice that although the late Babylonians are given very little illustration in these two books, their appearance is well described in the text.

So what's your plan, Paskal, would you find the nearest Minifigs figure and then convert them ?

Those are indeed two much loved books, however they are now 50 and 40 years old respectively, and consensus on other forums and websites is that there has been a lot of archeological and other historical research that has come to light in the intervening half-century.

Indeed, the author of one of them is a regular poster on the DBMM forum which has already been suggested, so if you did choose to join it you would be able to ask him directly what he has learnt in the past 50 years of academic study to update his views.

He's very helpful and has shared a lot of new information in that time, some of which has even been reflected in the figures produced by manufacturers other than Minifigs in the past 50 years as well.

However, if these are the only two reference books you're reading, it's quite hard to think back to a time when they were the only source of information and answer your question while discounting everything that's been published since then I'm afraid

FWIW, said author has promised an updated edition of Armies of the Ancient Near East to appear any year now.

Well said madaxeman! I think I might join the DBMM forum even though I don't play the rules.

@Dagwood
Well seen!

@madaxeman
For the figurines as for the documentation, from now on I am "old school" and it works very well for me.

Besides, as far as new ideas are concerned, we see what that gave with the prof. dr hab. Nicholas Sekunda who worked a lot for Osprey, a lot of disruption, moreover there are nowadays a lot of old authors who are being questioned, but it doesn't work with me.

TMP link

@The Last Conformist
Nigel Tallis spoke about updating the information in the old WRG book, although it would be a daunting task. But when will he do it? They're not going to reissue the old WRG book every year..?

@Marcus Brutus
TMP is enough for me and also works very well for me, besides what is said elsewhere could also be said about TMP.

However, by limiting yourself to only those books and TMP, and then asking a question on TMP, you're effectively asking others to do all your research for you.

Cheers,
John

@Erzherzog Johann
I limit myself to only these books and TMP, because I only like Minifigs and especially the books related to them and I only go to TMP to save my neurons.