"how long is a piece of string?" Topic

My actual inquiry is how long is a javelin in 20mm scale?
I realise that the answer, like the answer for the topic title, may vary.However, I would be happy if you could post some parameters.

And while I'm at it, would the length of a javelin vary for foot & mounted skirmishers?

It depends what scale you think "20mm" is, 1/72 or 1/76? Take the length of your real life javelin, and divide by 72 (or 76). I don't know which period you are interested in, but modern competition javelins are about 36" long (they vary) so they would be about 0.5" long in 1/72 scale.

How long is a javelin in real world? Not really my area of expertise, but my understanding is that around 2/3 or so of the height of the man planning to throw it would be a good estimate. Never heard of cavalrymen having special javelins designed for them, but again not my speciality.

Anyway, once you have established the ratio between the length of the javelin and the man wielding it, you can go and measure the real height your figures (from soles to the top of head) – which might not actually be 20 mm – and multiple it by the ratio.

I presume that you are going to use metal wire for actually making the javelins?

I'd agree. Javelin is half to two-thirds the height of the casting, spear is roughly casting height, and all bets are off for pike--two or three times casting height, mostly.

I'm not surprised it's a vague sort of measurement. I was just wondering if there had been some sort of 'Golden Measurement' first promulgated in the works of Sun Who.

But thanks for taking the time to reply.

"Sun Who"??

My question is, Do you actually game with someone who would actually measure such a thing?

Sun Who was Sun Tsu's older brother, Major B.

While Sun Tsu talked strategy and philosophy of war, Sun Who had rules for the thickness of javelin and spear shafts, whose arm should be the measurement for the official cubit and an entire chapter on whether the marching pace should be 68 or 72 paces per minute. He isn't studied much any more, but he did VERY well in a peacetime army.

+1 to Robert P.

Jim

I thought he was the guy on first. It had to be said.

"I thought he was the guy on first."

That was the famous Chinese-American ballplayer, Wu Who. He got into spiritualism after he retired.

It depends what scale you think "20mm" is, 1/72 or 1/76?

Or 1/87.

"My question is, Do you actually game with someone who would actually measure such a thing?"

Not at all. Indeed we usually use NVA figures armed with AK47s as Bronze Age Sea Peoples….

Ummm….most people here would have some regard for historical accuracy but if you have none, then knock yourself out.

In the right light, looked at from the left, with the right color tunic, the NVA could be seen as Sea Peoples lesser known allied contingent, the Avn. As to whether the Avn ever used AK47s, that is still hotly debated.

Interesting hypothesis.

Any evidence the Bronze Age AK was made out of meteorite iron?

Helps to know what period and cultures you're attempting to represent. A "javelin" is/was many things to many different people. As a generic term for a throwing spear it gets used across cultures, but what each culture thought their own throwing spears should be is an entirely different matter. The Thracian Peltast of the Peloponnesian Wars had javelins ranging in length from 3.5 feet to 5 ft. (Hardly a set standard there.)
The early Roman Republic's velites were armed with 4 ft javelins, but of course the troops also used the pilum in heavy and light designs, which while also thrown, generally aren't termed "javelins."

A word on the pilum. Again, technically this is as much a javelin as any other throwing spear, but it could range in length from 4 to 7 feet. And of course the later plumbata is also a weighted javelin (or "war dart") as small as around 1.5 feet.

Also, keep in mind that infantry were often expected to enter battle with several javelins clutched in their shield hand, which meant that there would be a consideration as to what length would least interfere with the shield and general movement.

Oh, on a side note, the Medes at least did have javelin-armed cavalry. And of course javelins were often used from chariots and elephants throughout the ancient era.

So, which troops, when, and where is the standard here. Otherwise, a spear is a javelin is a dart— what length looks "right" to you?

I'm looking to remove spears from medieval light cavalry & add javelins.I make my own from florist's wire – I've made many pikes & spears in the past.

One issue is the number of javelins per figure. I think that I should give each figure 2 javelins but it may not be practical. Thanks to this thread, I was going to go for about 2cms long.

Thank you (& others) for your interest.

Not as long as pikes or thrusting spears.
Go figure????

In 1/72 scale, I make javelins about 15 or 20mm long,depending on the figure. Thrusting spears are 35mm. Lances are 45mm.
Looks good to me.

If "20mm" were a scale, then the question would merely be, "How long is a javelin?" Perhaps it were better to ask that first question — which probably has a range as the archaeological answer — on the ancients message boards.

Then, you can have that datum as input for the opinion survey that is really about the semantics of "20mm scale."

Regarding the latter, the tradition with which I'm familiar holds that it most properly means a figure representing a man standing 68 inches tall would have a boot sole to eyes measurement of 20mm. Applying the classic artists' canon of proportions, 15/16 total height, yields a scale of 1/81.

That's bigger than 1/87 and smaller than 1/76. However, back when vehicle models for war games were in very limited supply, people commonly mustered a mix of those (with modeling conversions to fill the wide remaining gaps). As still larger 1/72 took off, those models also got pressed into service in the very eclectic range of "twenties."

Figures to go with the relevant vehicle ranges are normally not equipped with javelins, unless you mean a British surface to air rocket or an American antitank rocket.