"civil war fantasies" Topic

Sb agree and ask: why are mail in ballots, that were ok'ed only due to the Covid epidemic, still in place?

I remember the vote verifiers had to sit 6 or even 10 feet away from the person counting.

Now tell me, you are playing a wargame with written moves. Your opponent does something that you are sure he could not have anticipated.

"Did you write that in your orders?"
"Why of course. Do you want to see?"
"Yes"
"Ok stand 10 feet away and I'll let you read them while I hold it here."

So you believe someone can verify at that distance?
😉

Now tell me, you are playing a wargame where one of your opponents rolls his dice, announces amazing kill shots and hurriedly scoops up the dice before you can see them. You ask that he rolls his dice out in the open so everyone can see, and then he responds by accusing you of being a racist, a die-roll denier and a threat to game integrity!

Or, while you are looking away, reaches under the table and places extra units on the play field, and when questioned "Oh, those were always there, you just didn't notice them!" ;-)

ROFLMAO! Or the guy who uses his tape measure to push his figures just that extra little-bitty bit to be outside or inside of range of you…or to move just a little "long" shall we say…I remember how surprised and shocked I was when we had a guy do that. He'd always want to measure "from the firing stand" whenever his units were being shot at, and he'd actually use the end of the tape measure to shove his figures like a half-inch or more further away -- and then would gaslight you when caught.

"Oh, you're just outside short range."

"!@? Dude, you just PUSHED your figures backwards with your tape measure"

"No, I didn't, here, you can measure it yourself…"

Good grief! 😵‍💫😵‍💫

Elections are only respected when they are fair. Lately they are neither.

😱😱😱😱

Using wargaming analogies for politics is fun. We should do it more often… ;-)

Emojis fail me…..

The gaslight is still working, apparently

"Lately they are neither."
Lately? And this coming from a history teacher…

So…now Texas and Florida are saying maybe Joe Biden should be banned from the ballot in those States for his violations of the Constitution…

Well if Republicans say you shouldn't be banned for treason, that's a bit of a laugh.

"Innocent until proven guilty" Does it still exist?

Texas and Florida! Great idea!

There will be no civil war. Even large scale unrest is not what anyone thinks it would be.
Because… they look at the map and say wow, so much RED!

Nobody lives there. (Except for Texas)
See the big rectangular red state in the middle? Kansas. It has about 2.9 million people.

See Brooklyn? No, you can't, its too small to make out at this scale. 2.5 million people. It's blue.

I love rural America, really. Wonderful people, beautiful scenery. But some of the folks out there really have no idea how few people they have. When you look at that map, call up a population density map of the US, and look at them side by side.

There are BUILDINGS where I live with populations the size of Nebraska counties.

Sure, the rural areas supply the food.
The breweries are in the urban areas.

I could never imagine this happening, its so farfetched in plot. Its is as unlikely as a us president getting his main opponent removed from the ballot and sent to jail or doing deals with foreign governments to enrich himself or deliberately causing conflict within the us. Its so farfetched it just could not happen.

@Nedd was that in a political fantasy book? Wow! Was that 1984? Yeah, could never happen. Next you'll be telling us about a laptop and politicians flying to an island of underage girls. 😉

😱🤯

There will be no civil war. Even large scale unrest is not what anyone thinks it would be.
Because… they look at the map and say wow, so much RED!

Nobody lives there. (Except for Texas)

Yes, but THEY GROW ALL YOUR FOOD! ALL of what you need to live comes from the areas you mock. Your FOOD, your ENERGY and your WATER. And "red" truckers deliver everything your consume.

There are BUILDINGS where I live with populations the size of Nebraska counties.

LOL, City Mouse vs Country Mouse mindset, which is why we have the Electoral College so the City folks won't run roughshod over everybody else. So sure, farming is hyper efficient today, and we have a just-in-time supply chain that gets you what you need to live. If that's disrupted your "BUILDING with the populations the size of Nebraska counties" turns into a mass grave in 30-90 days, tops.

That's the biggest hidden effect of a 2nd Civil War, the US would probably see a huge percentage of population die of starvation, privation and violence because of mass supply chain disruption.

There are so many variables in this fantasy. Most of our medications come by ship from overseas, for example. This would be a huge issue in a giant war zone.

The blue states tend to be wealthier, pay more taxes. The northeast has some of the wealthiest states. We would have no trouble importing our food from Canada, we already do it. In 2020, we had toilet paper! French/English labels. Energy also. We have a lot of our tax money going to red states. That would end. Sorry Mississippi, Kentucky, etc.

There would be a million unexpected consequences for both sides.

We sure don't need any water from already thirsty red states. Think of all the bartering deals that would start up! Americans would drop their half a billion guns and start doing business. Hey Texas! How about water for Fritos? We all love money and would naturally start looking for new ways to make it. Nothing turns our heads faster than making a profit.

@Tortorella -- Ah, so you're a Blue City guy, eh?

We would have no trouble importing our food from Canada, we already do it.

You and what army of Leftist truckers and their escorts? And do you think that if there were a revolt against a growing Federal tyranny that Canada would be exempt from such turmoil? Seriously, you're fooling yourself. You've been in power blackouts before, yes? Now picture that -- except the lights don't come back on for weeks and then you only get a few hours of power a day. Truckers won't risk their lives shipping food to New York from Canada via the rest of Red State New York, and hell, probably don't like New York anyway and would refuse to do so. What will you do then? Confiscate trucks most likely. And who's going to drive those trucks? You'd probably activate the National Guard and most would reject your authority and refuse to drive. So I guess you get City bus and garbage truck drivers to drive confiscated big rigs, poorly and with low motivation and efficiency. Oh -- but wait, no there's nobody to pick up the trash and maintain your transportation sector…so garbage piles up, you have an explosion of vermin and related diseases and ya have to walk everywhere because no busses.

Energy also. We have a lot of our tax money going to red states. That would end. Sorry Mississippi, Kentucky, etc.

Meh, that's all deficit spending on non-essentials. And Energy from where? With US supplies disrupted do you really think Canada can pick up the slack? And that's not even factoring in any supply chain disruptions and sabotage.

We sure don't need any water from already thirsty red states. Think of all the bartering deals that would start up! Americans would drop their half a billion guns and start doing business. Hey Texas! How about water for Fritos?

More like, hey, we have a half-billion Guns -- say Blue Cities, we're just gonna TAKE the water we need with some of those guns. And whattya gonna do about it?

There would be a million unexpected consequences for both sides.

Yes, it would be a total horror show that would result in mass death on a scale we have never before experienced. Your Blue City would be a deadly ghost town in less than a month, and tens of millions would die from starvation, lack of water, privation, lack of medicine and disease, and violence. Canada would be overwhelmed and be unable to help, and would probably experience its own unrest. Mexico is already a mess, but I would bet we'd see reverse migration flows back to less messy Mexico. The PRC and Russia would no doubt call for a UN "peacekeeping force" to twist the knife in, and would also probably cut deals with Leftist Big City Mayors to invite in Chinese and Russian "Peacekeepers" to "help out" and accept foreign $$ as well, Hell, most Big City mayors by their public statements seem to share the Values of Xi and Putin more than Washington and Lincoln.

I suggest you get and play a copy of This War of Mine, a boardgame of urban civil war survival by people who survived the Balkans Crisis. Pretty brutal and eye opening. It's also available on Steam as a PC game.

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Say, come to think of it -- most Big Blue Cities do have a contingent of heavily armed citizens who own many, many guns despite heavy gun control laws. Gangs! Let's take New York City again as an example. Most New Yorkers are unarmed and rely solely on NYPD for protection. But in case of Civil War or any long-term disruption, the NYPD and city services will be stretched too thin to provide much protection. So I can imagine that the heavily armed Gangs will expand their territory into defacto mini-Kingdoms.

We have recent example from 2020 when Antifa/BLM seized a city block area in Seattle and declared the free state of "CHAZ" -- Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone." This free love peace zone devolved into anarchy and within 48 hours a local rapper named Raz Simone showed up with a trunk full of guns and his posse and took over the area, declaring himself the "Warlord of Chaz." The Warlord immediately used his guns to take over all resources, shake down everyone living in CHAZ and started rationing all supplies based on who supported him or not. There was a spate of rapes and two people were killed before bad PR (and a protest at her house) prompted the Leftist mayor of Seattle to roll in the cops and clean out CHAZ.

Now imagine she can't. She has too many crises to deal with and cannot spend any resources on CHAZ. So in 2nd Civil War New York City areas like CHAZ happen in many places all at once as the some 45 gangs in New York enforce their rule over multiple city blocks at once and start warring over resources and territory.

Btw, many NYPD and First Responders just don't show up to work one day because based on voting habits they lean towards "Red State" sympathies and they have an impossible commute from distant suburbs where they live because NYC is too expensive for most cops to live in.

So NYC is short on police, which will no doubt end up being focused on regime survival and protecting critical services, and most New Yorkers are unarmed, so the Gangs end up in control of large swathes of the city and they act to grab resources as they can. Talk about additional supply chain disruptions! Here's a current list of gangs operating in NYC:

Black Spades
The Council
Crips
Rollin' 30s Harlem Crips
Dominicans Don't Play
Five Families – The five most prominent families of the Italian-American Mafia (Cosa Nostra) in New York City.
Bonanno Family
Colombo Family
Gambino Family
Ozone Park Boys
Genovese Family
Greenwich Village Crew
116th Street Crew
Lucchese Family
The Commission – Governing body of LCN
Sixth Family – placeholder title for a family which matches or surpasses the power of the Five Families
Greenpoint Crew
Hell's Angels
Hip Sing Association
Latin Kings
MS-13
Pagans
Savage Skulls
South Brooklyn Boys
Trinitarios
United Blood Nation – East-coast faction of the Bloods street gang.
Nine Trey Bloods Gangsters
Sex Money Murder
Velentzas Organization

Say, that could make a heck of a boardgame!!!

Yes, it could!

Not a Blue City guy…I am part of the vast reality-based group in the middle. I live in hill country, am a firearm owner. I can drive most any big vehicle. Well, I may need a boost up to the cab now. I still spend a lot of time in the woods, on the water. This is where I come from. I did get to work in some cities, am familiar with the various groups of inhabitants and their issues.

The NYC burbs are way too expensive for cops. Ever been to Westchester? Try the boroughs, like Queens, maybe parts of Jersey. There may be no liberal cops but don't think all those guys drink the right's Kool Aid either. Each side will have weaknesses. Red state cities generally lead in per capita crime rates. Everybody is short on police. There is no totally controlled red or blue state. You won't get many red volunteers in Atlanta. A very uncertain game!

And I don't think truckers will turn down a gig if the pay is right. It will not be hard to set up a lucrative new system with the people we already do business with. Escorts against what? The reds need to protect their own!

And hey, the Red States get the other Border! Good luck, you can try out all the great ideas! I think that is a bit of a negative modifier for your dice rolls.

A great game if it's silly enough. Water for Fritos! Art of the Deal!

More like "Warlord of CHAZ" or "King of the City!"

Yes, Warlord of CHAZ works for either Seattle or DC!

Tort, LOL! Yes, I used to drive a variety of heavy equipment, many f which had a Sherman body as a base. Bulldozer, mag crane, and others. But I would DEFINITELY need a boost, or a crane, to get me into the cab today.

More farm or transport for me. There are still plenty of us in New England. We just may start a third country! We have experience

Cool, I drove big rigs in a past life for an agro trucking firm in California. Mostly hauling tomatoes. Lots and lots and lots of tomatoes from the Imperial Valley to Redding. Little overlap with Melons, and then cotton with different bins.

Oh goody – now Democrats country-wide are trying the same tactic to ban some 163 Republican congresspersons and politicians from being on the 2024 ballot.

It's not just Trump: Democrats are moving to bar Republicans from ballots nationwide

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Republicans and others will retaliate and ban Democrats from the ballot. What then? SCOTUS needs to slap this down ASAP or we *will* have a second civil war because there will be *no* way to resolve issues through the civil society, no way for candidates other than the local Establishment Party to get elected, no civil rights or representation for the minority party. Just dysfunction and chaos, leading to collapse.

Now Massachusetts Democrats say they will ban Trump from the 2024 election…

Well, that won't make much difference either way.But it's the principle. I think that it's vital for both sides to abide by court decisions and uphold principles of justice. Central issues: one – every voter should be able to vote as they wish. Two – there is no total immunity from the law. The joke about murder on 5th Ave. is not a legal principle. Supreme Court needs to get to work. Political or not, it is bound by a sacred trust and we have to go with it.

But what will people accept? Deniers will never believe what they don't want to hear. Blamer culture is so ingrained now that reaching any consensus is considered by many moderates to be impossible. %25 of the country believes the FBI secretly led the Jan 6 attack.

Civil war as described in the movie is kind of a neat package of division. We do not fall out along such lines though. Imagine a rebellious Georgia militia trying to lay siege to Atlanta without the logistical support of a central federal authority. No state on either side could reach full consensus and without first having to secure its own territory. Not gonna happen. It requires more than personal ammo supplies and attitude.

The American economy would begin to collapse immediately with consequences across all states. Global economic consequences would kick in. Our foreign enemies would finally be able to pursue their plans without restraint.

Unintended consequences example: Florida without FEMA. There won't be any storms to deal with during a war? No hurricanes? The whole southern tier has regular destructive weather events requiring federal response. Like it or not, blue states pick up a lot of the tab.

Dozens of other unintended consequences. Are Americans that ignorant? I don't believe it. But we are awash in Kool Aid.

A few hundred Georgia riflemen could close the interstates. How many battalions would it take to keep them open?

Precisely because we are so divided and also so mixed together, a war would be like unto the Carolinas 1780-83, or the Mohawk valley.

And I'll bet it is more than 25%.

The Constitutional provision preventing candidates from being on a ballot is based on supporting an insurrection. Thus, it isnt available to prevent just anyone and cant be used in a "tit for tat" fashion.

It will be interesting to see how SCOTUS would justify striking it down because the operation of law is automatic. They could only not apply it on some doctrinal grounds.

Perhaps Contextualism which in this case would be a loser because the provision was literally passed to prevent insurrectionists for running for office.

The other avenue might be Public Policy grounds but that is a doctrinal approach the Roberts court has rejected over and over again as a cop out.

Basically, a bunch of BLM communists could occupy Washington, D.C., and everyone in rural Virginia still eats. Yet if a bunch of rural Virginians with rifles decide that no food trucks move on I-95—and they could easily decide that—then no one in the District dines tonight.

Schlichter, Kurt. We'll Be Back: The Fall and Rise of America (p. 150). Regnery Publishing. Kindle Edition.

I really recommend Sclister's book. He has thought about all of this pretty deeply. (And, like me, he views a civil war as a great calamity. And, like me, he will vote for the Republican nominee while hoping it is not Trump.)_

Charge, do you think it is necessary that some have been indicted and convicted of insurrection in a court of law? Because that hasn't happened. Rule of law, right?

The bottom line is that there are many people out there who are potential warriors. Say the country splits down the middle population-wise. You are looking at about 165 million folks per side. Say 3 percent decide to participate in a red rebellion—and with 400 million guns in America, they are not going to find it hard to arm up. That's about 5 million folks under arms in the red. Our entire military, active and reserve, is about 2 million.

Schlichter, Kurt. We'll Be Back: The Fall and Rise of America (p. 151). Regnery Publishing. Kindle Edition.

Yes, I object to the ballot exclusion because there is no conviction in a court of law.

But I am also concerned that the two tiered justice system has enabled endless delay in resolving the multiple charges. If you are one of the guys who broke into the Capitol, you did not get such treatment. There should be a fair and speedy trial for a candidate who has been indicted for crimes – before voting takes place.

Doc do you realize how many weapons and support systems of all kinds there are in DC and blue northeastern VA? Including air support? Plus centralized command structures to run logistics, plan and execute.

The reality of closing the Georgia interstates successfully…. I think odds are against. Fort Moore…what will they do? Atlanta has a standing body of law enforcement personnel fully trained and armed. You must be assuming they will all join the revolt.

That 25% figure is pretty recent. I can't remember where I saw it. I have disagreed very strongly with attacks on the FBI in this and other matters. There are issues in every large body of law enforcement. And there are examples in the FBI.

But there is no way it is that institutionalized. No proof, no data. In the meantime, American lives are saved and American interests protected every day by professional FBI personnel. I can't reconcile this with the unsupported claims coming from…well, we all know.

Perceptions are realities, as we know. And there is roughly ZERO trust these days. In any institution.

Charge, do you think it is necessary that some have been indicted and convicted of insurrection in a court of law? Because that hasn't happened. Rule of law, right?

Judge Luttig can address it best:

Interviewer: It's just that since the Colorado decision, a lot of commentators have been arguing that the Constitution empowers Congress to serve as the primary check on the executive, and that an impeachment and conviction from Congress would have been a better solution than kicking it to the courts.

Luttig: Yes, that is correct as a matter of constitutional law. In fact, Section 3 of the 14th Amendment is self-executing, which means that congressional action is not required. Nor is it required that the former president be convicted of the criminal offense of an insurrection or rebellion against the United States under Title 18 USC 2383.

Further:

Interviewer: You've said you're confident that the Supreme Court will uphold the Colorado ruling. What's the source of your confidence?

Luttig: I'm always exceedingly careful with my word choice in public on profound matters of great importance. What I have said is that I am confident that the Supreme Court would affirm Colorado Supreme Court's decision based upon the objective law, which in this instance is Section 3 of the 14th amendment. Which is to say that I know that the Colorado Supreme Court decision is unassailable in every single respect under the Constitution of the United States.

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Scenario:
Governors (iirc) appoint NG officers. Assume a red state gov such as Texas makes sure his NG is officered by like-minded folks, down to at least battalion level. Assume Texas declares itself invaded and the governor sends the 36th Division to close the border. POTUS nationalizes the Texas Guard, which refuses the order, initiating a constitutional crisis. Other red states join, and especially Arkansas and Oklahoma.

Pause and contemplate what would be required to suppress just a tristate rebellion of TX, AR, OK. Their Guards muster four infantry brigades and a bunch of other stuff. The state governments provide legitimacy.

No matter how it played out, it would be a horror show, but the federal authority would NOT, in my view, have much of a chance in suppressing it.

Charge, that is complete and utter nonsense. And wish-fulfillment.

Doc,IMO the forces available would be far too small to hold the southern border and the rest of the state, even at full strength.

But in addition I would assume that as many as two thirds of the personnel would refuse to fight against the United States. Most them are leading pretty nice lives, I bet, unless they are watching cable news or going to rallies. This would be about the extent of the disaffected willing to risk everything by turning against their own country. Just not enough people concentrated anywhere who believe that anything like this is justified.
And again, no reason to think they could organize the kind of leadership and resources needed to meet all the needs of their residents plus fight a war to gain enough control of their own territory, defend the southern border, and fight the United States.

Are we defending the southern border now? I thought they were just waving a red cape and yelling ole!!

I just posted this monologue on another thread here …

FWIW :

I have mention the US problem is with a Gov't sanctioned open border. And those in charge are doing 0. Online, one can find many US leaders inviting illegal aliens in. The same goes with Sanctuary Cities. They said come we are welcoming you ! And in both cases they will have to eat those words. Or are now.

Texas has already blocked parts of the Rio Grande with large linked orange buoys. Forcing illegal aliens to go somewhere else to try to cross the US Southern Border.
A wall does the same. Like setting a defense for an Infantry Plt or Co. you place obstacles to channelize the enemy into kill zones, etc. Most wargamers would know that. I know Infantrymen and Tankers do.

The same works with the open border. Like water it will seek the point of least resistance. So, obstacles will and are doing the same with illegal aliens. But here's the rub. The CBP that is supposed to be guarding the border. Most are working to in process and release these illegal aliens into the USA. Most of which don't qualify for asylum. Coming here for a job does not qualify.

Some holes are cut into the wall by the cartels. To let the illegal aliens flood in. If there were more guards, they could stop the wall being breached. But again, most CBP are processing illegal aliens. The Air Marshels and Fed Prison Guards have been sent to assist with this flood coming across the border. CBP is a Federal. Their orders are if the illegal aliens make it to the US shore, etc. They cut the razor wire put out by the state and local LEOs have put out to stem the flow. And let them in.

Based on all the interviews by retired ICE, CBP, LEOs, etc., they all say they had the border under control, 4 years ago. Before the Gov't sanctioned the open border. So are all those former LEOs, etc. lying ? No I was here I saw that the border was under control. Now thousands a day line up to be allowed into the US. But with these huge numbers even if CBP or ICE could do their job they'd have to have the Military assisting with large numbers. How do you process 5000 a day at a border crossing ?

Who will feed, provide shelter, medical aid, etc. when these millions of homeless illegal aliens get to a town or city ? The border towns are overrun. The Sheriffs and local LEOs are interviewed every day on the news. The large cities, many claiming to be Sanctuary Cities are having the same problem.

If that was not bad enough the cartels and gangs using these millions of aliens as cover. For their drug smuggling, human trafficking, etc. Thousands of Americas are being poisoned by these deadly drugs sold or given to the cartels by the PRC/CCP.

So I really don't think some may appreciate the disaster of the US Gov't's sanctioned open borders. It has nothing to do with race or ethnicity, etc. It has to do with logistics and the criminals bringing drugs etc. across the border. How do you provided basic needs 10 million people ? Who pays for it ? The Taxpayer of course, and most don't want their $ going to people who are not Americans. When there are Americans here who don't have the $, etc. The average taxpayer has better things to do with their hard earned $. USD USD Like buying food, gas, etc. for their own family.

I fear many from outside the USA have no idea what is going on. And it is a self-inflicted wound from our own Gov't.

Legion we do not disagree except on some details. But this is the most serious unaddressed crisis we face. I know some things are starting to get moving on it, but why has it taken so long? I don't think some even want it solved. They use it to get elected. We have to secure the border, deport the unqualified, and process legitimate applicants. This is the fault of both parties, POTUS and Congress. We have been waiting decades for a real solution. Closing the border is only step one.

I disagree in comparing it to the previous admin. They did not do a bad job, but they might not walk the walk now, its a different ballgame. It needs compromise and cooperation to jumpstart change.

The crisis level in Central America drove massive new migrations.These numbers were not happening in the last admin. Because people were not under the same pressure to bail out down there. Of course there are a lot of peripheral salty dudes involved in the whole mess, bad guys making money now. But most people just want to survive.

Almost all fentanyl enters the country through US customs, mostly carried by American mules. Because it is so easy to move there is no need for the cartels to risk it with illegal migrants.
This is a US based retail industry importing outside supplies, not some affliction we indulge in against our will. The US citizens moving this stuff make good money and have plenty of options. A young woman can body pack a thousand hits and attract no attention going through customs. The product moves at high speed through an organized system all over the US. I bet you don't see a lot of Mexican nationals, cartel guys, standing around on the corner where you live. Who sells it? It's a long supply chain. We are doing this to ourselves in the end. I don't know whose fault anything is anymore.

Crack almost destroyed us in the 80s, meth somewhat but later on. Then the opioids. No admin was able to succeed in really stopping this behavior. None of this excuses the cartels. But we are giving them the money. It's the war that goes on every single day and never ends.

Tort we agree on the border being a major problem, just not the why of it.

That border is bringing in people from everywhere, not just Central America. I watch the videos daily and see many of them crossing and interviewed. Most want jobs, or to be taken care of. Most are men between the teens and early 40's. I listen to border patrol people interviewed. What they say and what the current government and MSM say, are vastly different.

Costs
"Key Highlights

At the start of 2023, the net cost of illegal immigration for the United States – at the federal, state, and local levels – was at least $150.7 USD billion.
FAIR arrived at this number by subtracting the tax revenue paid by illegal aliens – just under $32 USD billion – from the gross negative economic impact of illegal immigration, $182 USD billion.

In 2017, the estimated net cost of illegal migration was approximately $116 USD billion. In just 5 years, the cost to Americans has increased by nearly $35 USD billion.

Illegal immigration costs each American taxpayer $1,156 USD per year ($957 after factoring in taxes paid by illegal aliens).
Each illegal alien or U.S.-born child of illegal aliens costs the U.S. $8,776 USD annually.

Evidence shows that tax payments by illegal aliens cover only around a sixth of the costs they create at all levels in this country.
A large percentage of illegal aliens who work in the underground economy frequently avoid paying any income tax at all.
Many illegal aliens actually receive a net cash profit through refundable tax credit programs."

Our country cannot absorb 10 million illegals in 3 years. And this is just the stated numbers. We are looking at probably 15 million or more. It just is not possible. Just imagine if they sent 25,000 into your community and said "you guys employ them, educate them, take care of their health care." "Increase your taxes to pay for it." Most are decent enough, but 1% end up being crooks. Some rapes, break ins, robberies. Some friends or acquaintances are killed by them, murder and drunk driving. Some of them are MS 13 and start selling drugs and other things. A couple of ISIS plants, and who knows what they plan. Opps a few Chinese plants as well.

We are not vetting these people. Some won't show up to court for 10 years.

What is the solution the current administration's party wants? Legalization. Why? I leave that to your imagination.

As I said, our reasons for it differ. 🙂 But we do agree it must be stopped.

My first move, you are here illegally and you don't have a job and you are living on the public dole… you are gone.

You are from countries that harbor terrorists or governments opposed to the U.S. you must be fully vetted.. immediately.

You commit a felony or are part of a gang .. adios.

Yes we do agree on the basics and I am sure we could work out a plan! Unlike the government….

My biggest issue would be deportation at a cost of 400-600 billion. Some combination of solutions would be needed that allowed for humanitarian considerations. The last admin did not deliver on deportation.. . Obama did better. But we need to temper our policies carefully.

It is only common sense that we screen everyone and act on a case by case basis. You have laid out the grounds for deportation well. How this gets done is the problem .

But in the meantime, it has been shown that when the Mexican authorities do their jobs the number of illegal entries decreases. Thus Blinken's recent trip to Mexico. We are going to need every resource we can find to undo the mess.

Legion you'll appreciate this. Tort this will give you flavor of a lot of stuff I have seen and heard.

After listening and watching those taking part in the ant-semitic protests.. I believe this man.

Iranian national who crossed illegally has an interesting take on U.S. politics.
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