"Heroics and Ros - vs - Baccus 6mm" Topic

Mostly curious:

I own a large number of Heroics and Ros miniatures, mainly because I have been collecting them since 1978, when nothing else was available, and also because a friend of mine dumped a huge number of these miniatures on me when he moved out of town.

I ordered a sample pack of Baccus miniatures (ECW) a short time ago, and found that they are closer to 7mm (or even 7.5mm) in height so the two manufacturer's products do not really match. I want to start a new collection, but am not sure whether to use Heroics and Ros or Baccus (or Irregular Miniatures, which are similar in size to Heroics and Ros).

If you were going to start collecting 6mm, or start collecting a new 6mm army, and found that Heroics and Ros, Irregular Miniatures, and Buccus all carried the period you were interested in collecting, which manufacturer would you choose and why?

I would go with Baccus because:

They have army packs with the correct ratios for most game systems.

The multiple figs per base makes basing for units a lot quicker than H&R

They are not all clumped like Irregular which makes painting easier for me (though I have some Irregular which did come out pretty good.)

The strip frontages do not require me to try to cut off figures for line infantry units (2x 20mm bases gives a 40mm frontage) All frontages seem consistant (unlike Irregular)

Jake

I would go with Baccus, because they advertise at TMP.

I prefer Baccus, much nicer figures than H&R.

"I would go with Baccus, because they advertise at TMP"

Navwar manufactures Heroics & Ros, and they too advertise on TMP (although I have yet to see a specific banner ad for Herorics & Ros).

If the period in question is ECW, then a large factor in Bacchus' favor is the owner's passion for the period, which tends to ensure a good figure range, and his support of his own (very good) rule sets.

I am happy to buy the H and R figs that people will want to get rid of when they switch to Bacchus. The Bac's are very nice figs but I already have lots of H and R and will not switch. If I wanted the bigger 6mm, I would just go to 10mm.

It depends on what you want. H&R has more poses than Baccus. However, I feel Baccus is more cost effective, easier to paint and easier to base. To second the current thoughts, their army sets are almost one stop shopping.

"It depends on what you want. H&R has more poses than Baccus. However, I feel Baccus is more cost effective, easier to paint and easier to base. To second the current thoughts, their army sets are almost one stop shopping."

Are their army sets specific to one set of rules? Suppose you have a house set of rules that doesn't follow the usual, most common, rule set.

The Baccus army sets are nominally for the Baccus produced Polemos rules. The army lists for Polemos are taken from historical battles and campaigns.

Peter also does army sets for DBA and WAB. He is also willing to put together customized army sets.

The AWI armies are not for a particular rule set that I know of.

The bottom line is that the army sets provide a very nice way to get a good starting force.

As for which company I would choose for a new endeavor, it really is hard to judge. I like all three ranges. I have armies from each for different periods. I have even mixed Baccus and Irregular on the same stand…

Navwar manufactures Heroics & Ros, and they too advertise on TMP…

Are you sure about that?

Navwar manufactures Heroics & Ros, and they too advertise on TMP…

Are you sure about that?

I thought I was, but now… for some reason… I am not.

Navwar manufactures Heroics & Ros, and they too advertise on TMP…

Well… they should be adverising! ;-)

I woudl go with baccus if they hand a range in my period; high on my list for 30YW or 7YW

It would very much depend on the period.

H&R's Nappy range is much more comprehensive but does contain some very old sculpts.
ECW & 30YW – Baccus has no cavalry in hats as far as I know and they aren't that varied from what I've seen, definitely ECW and not 30YW. H&R stuff for that period are very variable in quality though.
Ancients – it would have to be H&R or Irregular unless you specifically want the few that Baccus do. I was very impressed by the new Germans though.
early to mid- 18th C is about honours even with the edge going to Baccus for quality.
Irregular can be very nice when painted up but they do need a somewhat different technique to the other two and it takes a bit of getting used to.
I personally prefer H&R because of the single figure basing, I found it quite difficult to paint the Baccus close order strips.

The great thing about 6mm is they are cheap enough to buy a few from each manufacturer and see which suits best.

Tony H

As others have said, depending on the period, I would start with Adler – definitely for Napoleonics bacause of range and detail. Same for ACW and starting AWI. For ECW I would go Baccus.

It's a tough call. My comments apply to the WSS stuff that I'm familiar with. I don't know about the other ranges/eras.

A plus is that Baccus has excellent service and the original owner/producer is making them (and adding to the ranges). I haven't dealt with the new owners of the H&R lines, but presumably there won't be any new additions to the ranges; and even if 'yes', not by the same sculptor. (I'll do a posting later giving his URL, I think he's in Florida but I might be wrong about that, and a quick check of my "Favorites" just now shows Navwar listed.)

The WSS foot are great from the bottom of the skirts and up, but the bit of stockinged or gaitered legs that show are way too tiny. I had about five out of fifty stands of foot in a bag with all or some of them broken off at the ankles.* And I think that the undersizing of the legs is evident in the photos of painted units at the Web site, especially when the bases have been flocked with static grass. And they still look great, as you can see for yourself, and it probably wouldn't matter in a game while looking down on them from an angle from 1 metre or more away, but I still prefer the proportions of the H&R.

The cavalry is a bit short in the men's legs too; and the horses are a bit small for the men, but I do like these very much and I could see getting more of these in the future. The generals are okay, too, but the generals' single horses are on very, very thick bases. (In Polemos do you move the individual generals around and not have them mounted on a base with other staff figure types?)

So if the service is good from H&R's new producer, Navwar I take it, and that's what you've got most of, I'd stick with the H&R. (And because they do match Irregulars for height well, you can always add specialist items from Irregulars like their wagons and limbers if you do want to diversify the appearance of your old dependable H&R.)

* And no, Peter, I'm not looking for an exchange or some free replacements, although I have a feeling that it is the sort of fair offer that Peter would make had I complained about the damaged ones at the time. (I had plenty for what I wanted to do.)

Here's the Navwar site, unfortunately it's one of those ones that doesn't have a separate URL for every range or period for me to give the Marlburian page link, you've got to surf around using an Index's page links.

navwar.freeserve.co.uk

(I also don't appreciate having a PDF pop-up of the order form take over my p.c. until I ctrl-alt-deleted to shut it down.)

Also, I could have sworn that there was a US distributor (and producer?) too. Is this the case or is Navwar the sole producer now?

Just think of Baccus as "heroic" scale 6mm. I love them for ancients and would go with them for any period that Peter does.

"Also, I could have sworn that there was a US distributor (and producer?) too. Is this the case or is Navwar the sole producer now?"

Not sure about the USA, but when I last ordered H&R I went with Spirit Games UK for my ordering — they will ship with actual postage rates, whereas Navwar charges something like 50% extra to ship to North America (which is just short of robbery when dealing with 6mm miniatures).

When I used to go to GenCon, I used to buy my H&R miniatures, but that distributor quit a long time ago (I believe he was from Arizona).

I am tempted to collect Baccus for ECW and ordered a few samples. I like the size and the miniatures. I haven't bitten the bullet and actually ordered any in volume yet… I hear them calling… but I haven't answered the call yet.

You can buy H&R through Tabletop Games, email Dave at

dave@tabletopgames.com

Attactix carries the Navwar figs.

I think the Baccus figs are nice. But they don't fit in with my Irregular like the H&R do. So, for me it'll stay Navwar for the lines I own.

Thanks,

John

I carry H&R (and did have H&R banners running here, thats probably
a bit of the confusion). I'm currently reworking the lines and monkeying
about with inventory levels. There are some periods that just dont
sell and there have been some supply issues for restocks, etc.

—
Gregg
Strange Cargo Games
strangecargogames.com

I am the odd man out: I would (and have) gone with Irregular and H&R. I use Baccus for my command figures. The Irregular are unevenly cast, so you must look before you leap (some are worse than others), but once painted up, they look right to my eye, en masse (and they do paint up nicely). I was pleasantly surprised when I had to mix some H&R in with my Irregulars. They matched nicely and looked better than I had expected.

Best,
Ed M

Andygamer.

It sounds to me as if you bought your figures some time ago. Most of the range has been recently overhauled in anticipation of today's release of the Polemos WSS rules set. (You read this here first BTW.)

This means that the Line Infantry and Grenadiers are much stronger but are on thinner bases. If you have Generals on round bases these have been completely replaced with entirely new sculpts, have several other items in the range. These changes should address the problems you have outlined.

Cheers

Peter

And yes, I will offer to compensate for the damaged items.

I'd go for Baccus, knowing you are after the ECW period. Simply put: they are the best-looking and beefier minis out there, when talking about 6mm.

Also, Peter willingness to suit your requirements with the cutomized army deals, make him the best option in my book.

Now, Gregg, would you like to comment on which period are not moving… Just to see if someone here is interested in them.

Not that I'm asking for a clearance sale or special army deals, just to get rid of the sleepers, mind you. ;)

Thanks, Peter, for the recompense offer, but you don't have to do anything special about it right now. (And it was from a while ago.) When I start ordering some more cavalry from you one of these days, probably in January, I'll include a note about this thread and you can just include a couple of more strips of cavalry or generals to make up for the few damaged foot ones. (And as I mentioned above, I knew your customer service was fine, as others have mentioned too, but it didn't "ruin" any big plans I had so I didn't bother bringing it your attention then.)

And I'll have to go back to your site and see what the new sculpts are like. Thanks.

It's very much a personal choice over which manufacturer you order from. I have ordered from both and can happily say that H & R win in terms of the castings.

I cannot warm to Baccus figures for some reason and I dont know why but the cavalry are just plain rubbish for me and don't look right. The chap who runs Baccus may well be making all the right moves with respect to new lines and releases but for me H & R figures are so much better proportioned.

Just to clarity
Heroics and Ros are sold by Heroics and Ros ;-))
and have been since 2009 when they were purchased from Navwar.

heroicsandros.co.uk
And yes we have a US distributor

lastsquare.com/zen-cart

Which figures to go for is really up to the individual all have there plus and minus and I am a bit biased now

Andy
Heroics & Ros