"TYW or ECW? Can’t decide." Topic

I have always intended to build some armies for a pike and shot period. My preference is the TYW but there is just so much information on the ECW. Also models I think are more available, it seems to be a real minefield the organisation and look of the TYW stuff. Any suggestions or help?
FM

I haven't painted either of those periods however I have thought about it and if I had to choose it would have been the ECW. Reasons are the vast amount of information, readiness of figures and, at least for me, the more straightforward history of the conflict. In the TYW players were coming and going or changing sides over the long length of the conflict and, as someone who has spent very little time looking into the war, it becomes a bit much.

Depends on what you want from the gaming: if you want big battles TYW seems to offer more, but for skirmishes the wealth of detail for the ECW in English perhaps offers more. But then I have ECW armies for large battles so what do I know?

TYW, far more battles and variety of troops

As Billy says. TYW offers more troop variety and large battles. ECW is a more straightforward project, better documented. If you're British, it gives you a chance to play on your home ground. Either is doable, but I generally wind up with the ECW.

I decided on TYW but it was two years before I put on my first game. Researched the period, wrote rules because there was nothing really good, had to learn the period, etc. Great project and worth it. BUT, quite a learning curve. Much more info available now, it would be easier.

As said above, the TYW offers so much more variety of troop types, combat systems, leadership styles and vivid personalities. ECW is more of a punch-up but with much more hard information. My approach is to use many of the same figures but have extra command stands to swap out. I'd certainly rather have Gustavus Adolphus as a Protestant paladin than Cromwell! I play both in 28's and 15's. Sadly I haven't found a satisfactory rule set for either.

It depends on how deep you are intending to go. TWY has numerous countries, armies, leaders ect. Could be a major long term project if you want to do that. On the other hand, ECW you can do that with just two armies if you want. Quick in and out period.

In the end it just boils down to cuirassiers. If you love them and want lots -30YW, if you only want a handful then Wars of the 3 Kingdoms it is.

Both? 'twould be churlish not to.

Dude… if you have one you have the other.

Dude… if you have one you have the other.

That might require making a few extra flags though, so that the unit can easily switch from one army to another.

There is plenty of information on the TYW, the issue is just the accessibility. However, with archives gradually being published to the internet, research of modern standards being released, and virtual translation tools being widespread, a little effort should allow you to find what you're looking for. If you do end up doing TYW (which I hope you do), I would recommend Khurasan Miniatures, they have the most accurate TYW range I know of, although they are "big 15mm."

I'd go for ECW for the following reasons:
All sources in English, albeit some in 17th century prose style.
Engagements range from small skirmishes, through small battles to a few large battles. So you can start small and build up larger forces.
Similarly, sieges range from attacks on fortified houses to medieval castles to cities like Gloucester.
Colourful uniforms and flags, but lack of definitive information about many units means you can make quite a lot up if you want.
Perfect for ImagiNations style games set in fictitious English counties such as Borsetshire (as in Radio 4 serial The Archers).
With different flags, the same unit can portray different regiments and even appear for the other side if necessary.
Plenty of rules of different degrees of complexity.
Ranges of figures in all wargame scales, from 2mm to 28mm. Relatively few different troop types and tactics to master.
If you are in UK, you can visit actual battle sites and also see ECW renactments by the Sealed Knot and the Roundhead Association – you could even make a wargame of such reenactments!
The issues of the ECW are no longer contentious (outside Northern Ireland anyway), so a public ECW game will not cause offence or controversy.

"Perfect for ImagiNations style games set in fictitious English counties such as Borsetshire (as in Radio 4 serial The Archers)."

Indeed, chum Andrew wrote some excellent Borsetshire scenarios for FK&P:

link

link

@arthur1815, about your last point, I'm curious what issues of the TYW would be contentious to this day? I'm not sure if many Swedes still yearn for control of the Baltic Bridgehead :)

As for the different flags representing different units, this can be especially true for the TYW, and I'd argue that the uniforms of the TYW can be even more colorful given the larger war coffers available to the combatants. I'd also say rules can be as complex or as simple as you want depending on the period you play or your interpretation (you could just have all German-style infantry units, or have the Swedish Brigade versus the various Spanish formations)

The main issue as you pointed out with the TYW is the language barrier for us English-speaking gamers, and the fact that TYW battles can be (but don't have to be) larger in scale.

My decision was to do 28mm ECW since it is more manageable in terms of having the units to play most battles. I guess more self contained and not wanting to bust the budget with the wider variety and nationalities in TYW. And for me at least, the research was far more readily available.

That said, my intention is to build x4 15mm forces with the release of 2nd Edition of By Fire & Sword, which corresponds with the time period and for sure has great variety of troops.

I'm hoping this is a good balance for me.

I decided on TYW but it was two years before I put on my first game. Researched the period, wrote rules because there was nothing really good, had to learn the period, etc. Great project and worth it. BUT, quite a learning curve. Much more info available now, it would be easier.

Interested in why you thought existing rule sets were deficient and your solutions?