"June 17, 1876, Rosebud Creek, victory or defeat for whom?" Topic

Hello everyone,

Rosebud Creek, victory or defeat for whom?

Yours aye

Paskal

The Lakota/Cheyenne did.

They won ? Because according to the Native Americans of the plains, they consider themselves victorious when they have fewer losses than their opponents, because for them, remaining masters of the battlefield means nothing since they are nomads.

Yes, Paskal, but the point of the campaign was that this time the tribesmen were fighting more in the European manner. Certainly a loss for the cavalry, since it blew the coordination of the converging columns.

If the Native Americans had been European, it would have been a wonderful strategic victory especially if there were only 750 of them facing General George Crook's column.

On the other hand, on a tactical level, it is not extraordinary because when the Native Americans do not directly defend their families, they are less aggressive.

Casualties were more or less even. Crook turned back and failed to rendezvous with Custer. Clear Lakota/Cheyenne operational victory. And it led to The Little Big Horn.

Why did General George Crook's column have to join the 7th U.S. Cavalry to attack the Native American camp?

The columns were planned to converge on the camp. This would prevent the Indians from scattering and give the army overwhelming superior numbers and firepower. Crook was part of the disaster that was the Little Big Horn for the 7th Cavalry. He went fishing after the battle and sent nobody to inform the other columns. Huge fail and he should have been brought up on charges. But Custer was dead and it was easier to place blame on the dead guy.

Thanks

John

Yes, Crook could have delivered the final blow to the Native Americans by continuing to advance to join Custer and Terry towards the Little Big Horn.

It was truly an opportunity not to be missed, especially since his losses were derisory.

But he didn't hear it that way!

Of a cautious pathological nature, he considered that the Native Americans had inflicted severe bullying on him.

He ordered… the general retreat of his entire column towards Goose Creek, in Wyoming!

His decision transformed the battle into the "defeat of the Rosebud".

A few days later, Crook sat on the banks of Goose Creek, his feet in the water.

His officers were participating in a horse race on this side of the river, while his troops were assigned to their daily tasks.

It was necessary that 'they are busy…

And the military campaign?

Everyone seemed to have forgotten it, like the defeat of the Rosebud in fact.

Crook did not send anyone to warn Custer or Terry of his maneuver, nor to the Indian pressure he suffered.

And he won't send anyone.

But why?

He had more important things to do.

For example, beat his personal angling record.

Indeed the day before, Captain Anson Mills had caught his 146th trout in one day and Crooke had promised himself to do better than his subordinate…

However dilatory Crook may have been after the battle, succesfully getting word to the other columns through a wide band of territory busy with Indians in militant mood would have been difficult.

My understanding was that Crook's column burned through a lot of their ammunition, and felt they needed to resupply.

Didn't Crook die at about this point while writing his memoirs?

Several weeks later Crook's column was back campaigning, hoping to avenge Custer. A large dust cloud was sited, indicating a large force ahead. They prepared for battle and continued to advance only to come over the hill and find it was Terry's column, not the Sioux and Cheyenne.

Grelber

As I understand it, Crazy Horse took out his supply train. A large reason for low ammo ?

Crazy Horse took out his supply train ?

Nowhere have I read that General George Crook had his supply train robbed during this battle !

Yep, you're right. Read an article a few decades ago that stated it had. That thought sorta stayed with me :/ The supply train was actually 40-50 miles back, which did present a problem.

"The supply train was actually 40-50 miles back, which did present a problem."

It is certain if this was the case !