"The British View the War of 1812 Quite Differently..." Topic

…Than Americans Do

"As we look forward to celebrating the bicentennial of the "Star-Spangled Banner" by Francis Scott Key, I have to admit, with deep shame and embarrassment, that until I left England and went to college in the U.S., I assumed the words referred to the War of Independence. In my defense, I suspect I'm not the only one to make this mistake.

For people like me, who have got their flags and wars mixed up, I think it should be pointed out that there may have been only one War of 1812, but there are four distinct versions of it—the American, the British, the Canadian and the Native American. Moreover, among Americans, the chief actors in the drama, there are multiple variations of the versions, leading to widespread disagreement about the causes, the meaning and even the outcome of the war…"

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Armand

Interesting piece – I must admit that I never got the "Second War of Independence" thing about a war where i) the country that declared it way already independent, ii) then failed to achieve any of their war aims

But then again I do live in Canada (although I felt the same way when I lived in Michigan)

My friend had a funny saying about this war.
" If you ask an American who won The War of 1812 they'll say we did. If you ask a Canadian who won The War of 1812 they'll say we did. And if you ask a Englishman who won The War of 1812 they'll say what war?"

I don't see winners, just various degrees of losing.

The reason why Americans called the Second War of Independence is because of how Britain has been treating the US like we were still their colonies. Passing laws on American trade and shipping, supplying Native Americans with weapons to fight Americans and not recognizing US neutrality in the Revolution/Napoleonic wars.

Yes, interesting article.

Grattan54 – this is where Americans are mistaken. They are not special, back in 1812 Britain was trying to control EVERYONE'S trade and shipping!

But the ‘what war' joke is actually true. Almost nobody in Britain has heard of the War of 1812. The general public is more likely to think it is something to do with Russia, Napoleon, and snow…

Moog and Cerdic have it right about how we in the UK think of the war of 1812 – it just doesn't register and that isn't a recent thing. Even if you'd asked somebody in the UK in 1812 about the war, they wouldn't have thought you meant the sideshow with the USA.

Thanks

Armand

I dont know a huge amount about 1812, and that's mostly in passing from various forum topuics. It sounds interesting, but Ive always been drawn to the more obvious attractions of the Peninsula and Waterloo. You cant do everything.

I can understand that from the US point of view it is part of the national consciousness, what with banners, rockets etc. It would be seen as an existential moment.

But that would never be mirrored here in the UK, there are too many other episodes to claim public attention.

I guess that many UK residents would struggle to recall anything about a lot of wars,even those with British victories but for those with a casual historical awareness its probably..

The 2 World Wars--lots of films plus family connections And endless TV documentaries about Nazis etc
Zulus.. due to Michael Caine
AWI.. various, but high profile event. Ross Poldark fought in it
Charge of the Light Brigade….a poem and film
Waterloo…film, and ABBA
ACW.. again, high profile
ECW.. something to do with different hairstyles, and an execution at the end
Retreat from Moscow.. there's music for it, also War and Peace was on telly.
Hastings, because everyone knows 1066 and the arrow in the eye, and there's a big tapestry
Vietnam.. all those movies
Something in the Sudan.. because L/CPL Jones kept talking about it in Dad's Army

Not a lot for the War of 1812, the SYW, WSS, fpw, Napoleonic Wars except as above.

I imagine many US people would struggle to put up a decent list

I am of course not talking about wargamers and historians, our heads are stuffed full of useless information by choice

It's a much bigger deal for Canadians, is what I've read. It firmly established THEIR independence, in the sense of remaining a part of the British Empire and on the road to Dominion status. That was the practical end of attempts by the belligerent and expansive USA to take over some or all of Canada.

I think it would be an interesting conflict to wargame, esp, with miniatures. Small-scale battles and skirmishes and sieges that wouldn't require huge numbers of castings; unique and colorful uniforms; a mix of unit types leading to plenty of variety and scenarios. Plenty of game fodder!

Interesting indeed…

Armand

There was the song sung by Lonnie Donnegan …

Lets not forget the great hockey teams that emerged, even the WHA!

(smile)

Armand

What is interesting is that none of the US states that were affected by the seizure of US vessels voted for war.

Years ago I remember reading, I think on 'The Napoleon Series', that the only true loser in the War of 1812 was Spain. I'll admit I don't know if this is true or not.

Twenty years ago, I was the British escort for an advance party from the White House scouting Portsmouth Naval Base, when there was an idea that POTUS might do a speech there as part of the commemoration of D-Day 60, given Pompey was the main port of departure for the US element of the landings.

We went to the Wardroom of HMD Nelson, nice old Victorian building, which had been recommended to the WH by someone as a good venue a speech.

The WH staffers gazed up at the murals running around the top of the Wardroom, showing fierce frigate actions from the age of sail.

"Gee, are those paintings of Trafalgar?"

Me: "Errr, no, that is the RN taking out the USN frigates during the War of 1812. That one, I think, is USS President becoming HMS President, and that one is Shannon taking Chesapeake…"

The Presidential visit never happened.

Love that story!