"On the flip side...." Topic

..who was the worst US President to serve as Commander-in-Chief during a time of war, declared or undeclared?

Gentlemen start your engines.

The current one!

Presidents within the last 10 years excluded, of course.

LBJ

James Madison!

Foolish enough to declare war on Britain when it looked like she was in trouble from Nappy's invasion of Russia.

Believing the myth of the "Citizen Soldier" (thank Jefferson for that one), he ordered the invasion of Canada, thinking it would be a walk-over. In fact, the Brits there made Madison wear his a** for a hat--twice!

Then, at the height of his prowess, "Maddy" watched from horseback the humiliation at Bladensburg, then calmly rode home to tell Dolly to load up the truck and "Move to Beverly" (last detail disputed) so that the Capitol could be burned with a few less treasures in it.

A one term President who served exactly one term too many.

TVAG

Ooh, tough call between Madison and LBJ!

Nominating Nixon too for Cambodia and putting off ending the war til after the election, killing more American soldiers so it 'wouldn't look like politics'.

Wilson, who for no reason of national interest, got us involved in the meatgrinder of WWI.

Madison got better as the war went on. Appointment more younger aggressive generals ect. LBJ failed badly. Although, Wilson fighting a totally needless war is also true. However, he wasn't bad once it started.

George W. Bush

Wilson unleashed ruthless censorship of any criticism. Anyone who spoke publicly against military conscription was likely to get slammed with federal espionage or sedition charges. Possessing a pamphlet entitled Long Live the Constitution of the United States earned six months in jail for a Pennsylvania malcontent.

George Bush II

Tough call but for a number of reasons I would go with Wilson

Wilson. Bad Commander in Chief, bad President, generally bad person.

George W Bush

Clinton!
Make sure the news cameras are roiling when you land a seal team for a secret mission.

Wilson

I gotta go George W Bush. Micromanager like LBJ. Picks the wrong fights like Madison.

Restricted to pre 2013, per TMP rule:

1. LBJ. A crook and an arrogant SOB who got us into a war he had no plan for winning and couldn't grasp the political implications of. Bad man, worse president.

2. Carter. Almost lost the Cold War through failure to understand it or strategic realities. Carter was a very good man in the very wrong job. (Personal friend of my grandfather, who himself came to the same conclusion.)

3. Clinton. Failed to realize we were already in a war with Al Qaeda. That failure and the foolish decision to deny the FBI access to CIA intelligence led to the 9/11 plot being unrecognized, though all the information pointing to it was essentially known. Bad president, worse man.

4. W. Good man, wrong war. Personally, I don't think he lied— I think he believed every word he said about Saddam and Iraq. But I fault him for not being more discerning about who was giving him the information, and not recognizing those people for what they were. He trusted the wrong people, and we all got burned.

The problem with presidents is that sometimes a flawed man makes a good president, and the "good" man makes a poor one. But the corrupt man ALWAYS makes a bad president.

Parzival

George W. was out for revenge and WMD was his way of justifying an unnecessary war. Dick Cheney never saw a war he didn't like and he ran the administration.

For the record, I never said Wilson was corrupt, or that ONLY a corrupt man makes a bad president. I said that a corrupt man will be a bad president. I don't think that's really arguable. In any case, Wilson was not in it. But it is entirely possible to be a very good man and a very bad president.

But regardless of corruption or purity, Wilson, like all too many politicians and pundits, made the mistake of believing his own press, and that he was "the smartest man in the room."

Those obsessed with their own genius are blind to their own mistakes, and often refuse to admit they ever made one.

Even worse, in Wilson's case, after his stroke his wife and doctor assumed effective control of the country, in direct contravention of the US Constitution. One can't fault Wilson for that, but one can fault the sort of "intellectual aristocracy" attitude which produces such an action. And it comes up again and again— the assumption that the people can't actually know what's best for themselves, or that the Constitution "is in the way" of some idealized view of "progress."

Parzival, you hit the nail on the head. In certain political circles the common man is too stupid to know what's best.

Given the ten year rule I think LBJ would count for the massive damage he did to our efforts in Vietnam. I would also consider Kennedy for the disastrous appointment of McNamara as Secretary of Defense.

I don't think there is any clear winner here. LBJ and Nixon would both be in the running.

Wilson is more on general principles than as CinC.

Bush 2, but I think of him as a decent guy in over his head, too trusting of Cheney, needing some sort of 9/11 response.

Reagan.. also not a bad guy and resolute regarding the Soviets. But his military leadership in Lebanon and the disaster in Beirut cost many Marine lives and gave terrorism a big boost into the future. Selling arms to Iran also. The Soviets were already getting creaky and their own disaster in Afghanistan did not help them. But Reagan did keep the pressure up. I know most here will take issue. But Beirut was no small thing.