"Dev’s treatment of Irish army deserters: vindictive..." Topic

… or pragmatic?

"Under EPO 362, 4,634 Irish soldiers who had been absent from their posts for more than 180 days were summarily dismissed from the Irish Defence Forces for desertion. Servicemen who on 8 August were absent for less than 180 days and were not captured were dismissed automatically as soon as they passed the 180-day threshold. Subsequently, a further 149 soldiers were expelled in March 1946. All these men lost their entitlements to gratuities, allowances and pensions dated from the day they absconded. Controversially, they were also barred from government-funded employment for a period of seven years. De Valera's decision to sign this order prompted a furious reaction from the opposition in the Dáil, has divided historians and has consumed many column inches in recent newspaper letters pages. Was de Valera's attitude towards Irish military deserters vindictive or pragmatic?

Around 6,000 men deserted from the Irish Defence Forces during the course of the Second World War. The majority of these travelled across the Northern Irish border or the Irish Sea to join the British forces or to find a job in the booming British war industries. The Department of Defence and Irish military intelligence (G2) kept close tabs on desertion rates and enlistment in the British forces in general. Post to and from British recruitment centres in Belfast which passed through Dublin was intercepted and opened, while soldiers posing as deserters were sent by military investigators to see whether the British Legion was facilitating desertion. Despite this, Peadar MacMahon, a former chief-of-staff and secretary of the Department of Defence during the war, seemed unable to get the cabinet to tackle the issue. MacMahon felt that both desertion and recruitment into the British forces were driven by ‘economic considerations', and he urged the cabinet in May 1941 to raise Irish military pay to British levels. Although modest increases in pay and allowances were sanctioned in September 1941, Irish soldiers' pay lagged behind that of their British counterparts and proved to be one of the motivations for desertion.Towards the end of the war, the Irish government began to receive correspondence from the relatives of deserters, as well as questions in the Dáil, about what would happen to them if they returned to Ireland after the conflict. At this point there was no official policy towards deserters. Perhaps surprisingly, it was the Department of Justice, rather than Defence, which took the lead. In June 1945 the secretary of Justice, Stephen Roche, circulated a memo to the cabinet on the issue, containing the main points of what eventually became EPO 362. Roche suggested that all deserters be summarily dismissed from the forces, and he recommended the figure of 180 days as the cut-off point. As justification for this, he cited the enormous cost to the state of tracking down, arresting, detaining, putting on trial and then incarcerating deserters. Finally, he proposed that they be banned from government employment for a period of seven years. The idea had been vaguely floated by defence minister Oscar Traynor, who spoke in the Dáil in May 1945 about deserters being barred ‘for a long time to come' from state jobs, but Roche's was the first mention of a definite period of disqualification…"

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Armand

Interesting article. I hadn't realized the Irish had built up their army during the war, apparently as a "just in case" measure.

Being an American, I do find a certain irony in men deserting to join the British army with its higher pay, in light of the British complaint about American soldiers being "over sexed, OVERPAID, and over here."

Grelber

On hearing of the death of Hitler, de Valera visited the German embassy to sign the condolence book. That says a bit about him.

dont be too harsh on De Valera he got away from being shot/executed in 1916 cos he had US citizenship.

Yes he saw Collins as a political threat so put him into danger and was not too upset when he was killed, never saw him being assassinated.

The Irish Government was for anyone who was against the UK. and was for the Nazis.

There was also the dead hand of the Catholic Church post war helping war criminals escape justice.

A similar thing happened in India post independence where the INLA was seen as respectable freedom fighters despite fighting for Japan.

Thanks.

Armand

For a great read on the fate of RAF & German Luftwaffe / Kreigsmarine personnel interned in Eire during the war, try and find a copy of "Grounded in Eire"
Goes into details of the activities of the men interned in the Curragh and their attempts to escape.

I'm pretty sure that I read somewhere that recent research suggests that the Irish were more co-operative than previously thought with respect to things like allowing downed airman to "escape" to Northern Ireland.

As I recall, de Valera permitted only Michael Collins' brother to attend the dedication of his gravestone in Glasnevin Cemetery. A petty, vindictive man.

Thanks also…

Armand